VERNA AND CREATIVITY

19.11.87.

Meditation.

Imagine a golden circle spinning faster and faster around us. As it spins it is beginning to rise and is taking us with it. We are going up through the roof, gradually higher and higher. Look down and you can see the world beneath us, see the city, see the country. Now you can see the oceans and the other countries gradually getting smaller and smaller. Now look up and around us. Everything is jet black, a soft, velvet, safe blackness. This is the void, the Godness.Look at the stars that you can see twinkling, the beautiful silver stars - the golden stars. Look at them. - Reach out and touch them. Hold them in your hand, play with them. Throw them up and catch them. Throw them away and catch another. Play with them like children. Sometime you will be able to play with stars like this - when you are beginning to express the Godness within you.

See, you are at a rainbow, see the seven coloured bands stretching away from you. Climb that rainbow. Feel yourself bathed in the beautiful golden lights. Those seven lights make the one pure light. - Feel yourselves bathed in that one pure light. - Feel the peace of the Godness that one day you will merge back into.

(Pause)

Oh God of Peace, O God of love,

We are thy children,

Guide us, Inspire us.

Let us know thy blessings, every minute of the day, Let us seek thy love and peace,

Let us know that it is within us, there for the asking, Provided by the God as a father provides for his children.(Pause)

Come back down that rainbow, into our golden ring. The rainbow is fading, the doorway to Godness is fading. But we can open that doorway whenever we wish. - And one day we will go through that doorway to the state of peace and love that we can barely glimpse but one day it will be ours. - Look around at the stars that one day we will be able to make. - See them fading, becoming smaller. - As you return to our world, see the earth becoming bigger and bigger. - See our country and our city. - Come back to this room and be at peace. Know that you can have this experience whenever you sit and think of it. I do hope everyone enjoyed that meditation tonight. (General agreement) It was a special one given to you from Arrian. Did you all have a lovely experience? (General agreement) You see it is useful for us to know when you are having these experiences in our meditations, because it helps us to give you the things that you respond to most.

Margaret: I think everybody would have to respond to that one. It was so peaceful and beautiful.

Georgina: And very joyous too.

Verna: It also helps us to hear from you what you are experiencing. It gives us an idea of how you are progressing.

Isia: It felt like skipping.

Verna: That is good because this is a joyous time of the year coming up, and in these next two or three circles we are trying to lead up to that. And we are anxious for you to understand that there is more to the world of spirit than what you usually think about in this philosophy. You hear so much about the conditions when you first come over here, and how you can provide your own surroundings and all that sort of thing, and some of that is really very exciting because you have all sorts of wonderful things like flying around if you want to - it can be fun. But we would like you to understand that there is more to life over here than just that. You also hear often about the ways in which you can help other spirits, spirits of people who have some difficulties and have brought material conditions over here with them. You also hear about Halls of Learning and you can expand and extend yourselves. There are ways in which you can make objects with which you are familiar. But we also want you to know about the other states, states that you can go into in which you too, can actually take part in creating worlds as you know them. You see, the steps of going through the Halls of Learning and learning to create things by thought in the spirit world are leading up to this stage.

First you have to let go of the material conditions. Sometimes you need to work things through, and we are anxious that you understand that you do not HAVE to reincarnate back into your world. If you do, you see, you are hanging on to the material conditions. We are anxious that you understand that you can let them go. And a part of that is when you get to the point at which you can help other spirits, who haven't yet realised this and you can work with them and this also helps you to let go of your material conditions - those little last vestiges.

Often what ties you back into the world more than anything is the people that you have left behind - the attachments that you have made - and you all have to, eventually, let them go.

Many people only finally let them go when the last person comes over into the spirit world. This doesn't matter, because you may have things to work out with those people that you have left behind. But then you can move on to the Halls of Learning where you can start learning about mind expansion. We have often described this to you as merging with other souls around you - souls with whom you are compatible. It's an awfully difficult concept to get across to you, because it is an expansion and a merging with others so that you have many more experiences on which to call. Its a much broader range of experience, understanding, general knowledge perhaps, and you are starting to understand very much more about the working of the mind and the thought processes. At first you use this in creating objects such as you may have created in the material world - pictures and sounds and so forth. But very much different to this. True, they may simply be bigger, they may have more depth to them, and you get to the point where they also have more sort of movement and light to them, and that is the beginning.

You move into spheres where the thought processes have let go of the material concepts. Often this will be stages where it is something like the gemstones, you can see the colours and you can see the lights that they reflect. But they are not really the same. But that is the closest analogy that I can give you. And it is at this stage where you are beginning to enter the act of creation, because these surroundings that you find yourself in are so very tenuous and so fine, and eventually you just go through them, and that's when creativity really starts. By this time, of course, you have expanded and extended yourself very much more.

You see, my difficulty is that I have not yet experienced this, I have caught glimpses of it and it is terribly difficult for me to really bring it through to you - its expansion and the ability to create. But I do know that it is a very joyful stage, its a very playful stage. And there is one stage beyond it at which you let go even that, and there is a stage beyond that at which you reach the final merging.

So do not get TOO caught up with your anticipation of what you are going to experience over here. You will enjoy that stage too. That, too, is a form of creation because you will be forming your surroundings. And the things that you make in your world, too, are a part of the process, a part of your training, because you have to think it through first - you have to create the thought idea and then you start with it and you make it material. But the big thing is the thought creation.

It does not matter what you make, but try to do things where it is all yours right from the initial thought. That is the biggest training for creation later.

How many of you think "I am no good at making anything?" You are. You create things every day - even if it is only a meal. you see even that you have to plan. You have to work out beforehand. You have to see what you have available. Perhaps you are only planting in the garden - but you still have to think it first - you still have to plan. Even the act of creating a child is part of the process - especially as you have to train that child. That process is not entirely dependent on the parents, the child has a great say in it too, but you are still contributing. Even your acts of keeping house - you still have to plan it and create, don't you?

Margaret: I suppose we think of it more as every-day mundane things.

Verna: But you still are creating something - you are creating a home. So it doesn't have to be great works of art. It may be a bit of pleasure that you give someone - that is creating. What is available over here is really very much greater than any concept you can have and any concept that I can give you. You have just been shown what is there.

(Pause)

Isia: I've just been told to give you a box of Turkish delight, from a friend of yours. Someone said that you liked it very much.

Verna: Yes. I did once have Turkish Delight. I accept it.

Janet: Did you come from an area where Turkish Delight was once a sweetening dish?

Verna: It was brought to us. Especially at Christmas.

Margaret: I think you have made us all feel too peaceful and steady, Verna.

Verna: That's all right. Maybe some of you needed it.

Dorothy: Maybe it was meant to make us think.

Verna: No. Just to be.

Isia: Do you have any pets over there?

Verna: Oh, Yes.

Isia: They are always around, are they?

Verna: Every pet you have ever looked after will meet you. Some of you are going to have problems.

Isia: I am looking forward to having animal friends there too.

Verna: You see, the animal kingdom forms one of the strands - strand is really the only word I can use (feeling slightly frustrated), but you know about analogies. - There is one big tree trunk all being twisted round and, eventually, animals too merge back into the Godness, because originally they, too, came from Godness. So they will be there, and you will have much better communication with them.

Guy: When we reach the stage where we create, some mischievous or cranky individuals may also reach a stage to create, and create creepy-crawlies and bugs and all kind of things. Is that how they came to be made?

Verna: Well, don't forget we had to make something to feed the birds and the fishes.

Guy: Fleas on dogs are just made to feed on dogs.

Verna: Well, as I said, it is a play time.

Guy: Some rather cranky entity made many things. Would that be right?

Verna: I don't really know. I shall have to ask some one to find out.

Janet: At least the fleas let you know the dog's dirty.

Verna: You see, there always has to be a flaw somewhere, because Godness provided the initial basic building block and that is perfect. But this creation isn't by perfect people - there will always be faults.

Guy: That is what I am aiming at. The spirits who have reached the stage of being able to create are far from perfect -

Verna: Not FAR from perfect.

Guy: Well, not perfect, so they mess things up occasionally.

Verna: Well, they wouldn't, but don't forget that you people also have some input.

Janet: But isn't the power to create life, something that only lies with God?

Verna: It depends on what you mean by life. The incoming spirit has to be God but you can mould it, you can affect it, interact with it. Are you not made in his image?

Margaret: I think we find that a little hard to - you know - we almost thin 'Oh, no. That cannot be.'

Verna: Because you consider your earthly personality. You have to go within.

Georgina: Verna, do we create our own bodies? I understand that we have - now you tell me.

Verna: It is rather you select a body which suits what you want to do. That suits your prime purpose. But you can affect it to some degree, but it is largely seeing what is available - 'largely'. You understand that there are always exceptions to every rule - we can only tell you about what USUALLY happens.

Georgina: Can it be that what is available for selection will be made according to genetic blueprints. Is that correct?

Verna: Yes. Largely.

Janet: So you can see what you look like before you are born?

Verna: And then, of course, you have some input to it, by the way you treat it. So there is a lot of interaction and your thoughts and your intentions and your overall attitudes which show on your face, too. And so you can affect what is given genetically. The plainest face can look beautiful if it has a beautiful soul.

Margaret: Like the saying : There is no plain bride on her wedding day.


Verna: That's right.

Dorothy: So are babies as far as their mothers are concerned.

Verna: And a lot of other people.

Dorothy: We are coming up to a joyous time as you said. There are celebrations going on, on your side and on our side, are you doing anything in particular on your side?

Verna: Well, we only have to think of things you see, but we are already receiving the changed vibrations from the world. You see, every time there is a big religious festival the vibrations change, and people tend to - at least in the area where the festival is - to become happier and excited and, perhaps, more tolerant of other people. We feel these changed vibrations, and that's what comes to u.Dorothy; Does that mean that anything you feel from our vibrations in this world on your is that much more felt by you?

Verna: Yes, because everything is vibration and the communication between souls on this side is by vibration, and we are aware of the vibrations on your side too.

Georgina: There has been a lot in the papers lately about the terrible conditions in prisons here. Do spirits have any idea about the way criminals should be treated or how they could be rehabilitated?

Verna: A lot of the criminal's sort of behaviour arises out of their experiences in your world - a lot of it, you understand - and the way a person reacts to it. It is sort of basic outlook on the world, and you need to be able to change that person's outlook and 'inlook'. The way they feel about themselves. Now this is extremely difficult - you do need to shield other people from the criminal element. Even in the most 'primitive' societies that the world has experienced, there were the misfits - the people who would not obey what rules of society there were. So it is not just a phenomena of your society. Often these people were coming with the idea of changing something in society - that was one of their ideas for coming through - and so they saw society in a different way to the rest of the people in that society. Then naturally, they were in a minority, they were not getting very far, and so they developed a rebelling attitude. Of course, there were people who were able to do what they had come for - shall we say, they went about it in an appropriate manner for that society. We cannot give you an easy way of dealing with this, there are people in your society who are attempting to gain understanding of human behaviour. But at the moment they are focusing far too much on the material manifestations, but we expect they will get over that in time. It is a very fine 'knife edge' which you have to draw.

Janet: Not all the criminals are in jail though, are they?

Verna: No. We are trying to work with people who are interested in that problem because, you see, when those criminals come on our side they are still going to have these problems, and we will still have to work with them. So we are trying to work with the material conditions as well, now. There will be mistakes made, there will be injustices, but there are gropings being made to correct it, and in time answers will come forward. You need to find some way to improving their basic self-concept, and their concept of society and other people. We are not sure that the present state is correct, it is evolving from a previous state, which was even more incorrect and eventually it will evolve forward. We cannot give you an easy 'pat' answer. Because it still comes back to the basic interaction of the incoming soul, its immediate surroundings and life experiences. There are those rebels who will go about things in an appropriate manner and there are those who can't.

Janet: What would you do about someone like the Ayatollah Khomeini? Is he not a criminal?

Verna: I don't know what to do about him. I assure you there are many of us who are very concerned about that gentleman, and we are trying to work in that area. But remember that even he is a drop of Godness. Pray for him.

Dorothy: How does he justify his actions because he is supposed to be a leader of their religion isn't he?

Verna: That's right. It is how the original message given has been misinterpreted over the years.

Margaret: But undoubtedly he believes in everything he says. Of course that sort of person really frightens me. Anybody who is a fanatic about anything frightens me.

Janet: But isn't there a more important issue? And that is that there is a question of degree with what you want to call the criminal element. You have the people who Georgina mentioned, who in many ways are the more petty types, and you have the hidden operator at the macro level - like the Ayatollah, or Hitler, or Fidel Castro - you name any number of them and what you have to look at is the source of the problem. So how do we in a society that has developed today, cope with the problems which now lies before us. Hundreds of years ago it would have been dealt with more effectively in a society which was so much better equipped to cope with these individuals.

Verna: The thing that you as individuals, can do in your society is to pray for them. To direct love to them because as long as you direct hate at these people, they will be receiving that hate and feeding on it. So love, send love to them, don't condone what they are doing. I do not know if you were present when we talked about the work that we had to do with Mr. Hitler. When he came over here and he went through his life review, he became completely rigid with horror at what he had unleashed. And more than one group was involved in sending love to him, and it was that love that was able to unlock him, because it was the first time that he had really experienced unconditional love. When he realised what that was, then he was able to start working on the people who had suffered at his hands. Many of them could only be released from THEIR hate by him. He had to show them love.

Dorothy: So, as the other people here said, about the criminals today on this earth, they will have to face probably the same thing.

Verna: That's right.

Dorothy: Being rigid with shock at what you've done?

Verna: Yes.

Janet: But look at what motivates most people to be criminals, particularly at that level. Its the problem that we have about repetitiveness and people's desire for power, to be above everyone else - there are some people who cannot be happy with their being equal to others.

Verna: It's as though as soon as man settled, some have to be leaders, and you do need leaders in a group, in a society like yours.

Janet: Benevolent leaders.

Verna: Yes, but you need leaders, but it is the wrong type of leader that causes a lot of problems, and I think that this is what you are concerned about.

(Break in recording)

Dorothy: That means we have to learn to be tolerant of each other, then these things wouldn't happen.

Verna: If you can get it through the society so that it is part of society's whole mores. This is one of the things which the world is having to learn - bring this tolerance, this acceptance about. This is the preparation for the new type which is to come, and there will be many social upheavals. If you look at the patterns of history of your world this century, you have had the whites moving into the blacks area but you have also had a lot of blacks who have moved into the whites' area. So there is a tremendous mixing going on. And so many difficulties come because you have material assets.

Janet: So what does this do or mean in the meantime? When a black person or an Asian person see their children, or parents or their family, the people that they love, slaughtered before their eyes, are they supposed to stand back and not do anything to help?

Verna: It makes no difference what the race is, all people suffer the same in those conditions.

Janet: That is not the issue I am driving at - if someone you love is at risk of their lives - you must defend.

Verna: You have to act ethically yourself.

Janet: The trouble is that it starts off as one individual's action which is one you have to take in defence.

Dorothy: But how can you justify that protection which causes you to kill a person?

Janet: The trouble is that it is not really the means to the end.

Verna: Your world will never be perfect, and you are constantly faced with these choices and you can but choose which, to you, is the better one.

Janet: Would it be considered a crime in the Spirit world to not act to protect someone whose life is at risk if you could help them?

Verna: To us sin is when you prevent the manifestation of Godness. We look at a person's intent. Now, because we are all part of Godness, because basically there is that under-linking underneath, what you do to one person, you do to yourself. And this why when you go through your life's review, you feel what you have done to other people. And there are some people who have been in very humble circumstances, who would feel just as much remorse as what to someone else may be quite a small sin or crime in your words, compared to what some of the leaders have done, and yet that humble person will suffer just as much as the 'great' person.

Janet: But you are talking about acting from the individual point of view. You are confronted with choices - you could either choose passive resistance which is a ways equated with saying "I will let this person die even if I could help them because I know that to help them would only lead to continuing the larger problem" which might be apartheid or it might be anything else. On the other hand you can do what you feel would be morally right for you as one individual to protect that person. You have the dilemma of the two - the greater good or the individual situation.

Verna: Basically it is your own decision. You are in the world to make decisions. It's one of the experiences that we are here to gain.

Margaret: Yes, you have told us that before Verna. It's very hard.

Verna: It is.

Dorothy: What I find hard, Verna, is that when a spirit comes into a baby's body, before or just after they are born, you say that the spirit knows what our life is going to be like, how it ends, so it knows that there is also the possibility that it could kill.

Verna: The incoming soul knows the broad general outline. Now, as you are in one situation, so you can influence what comes next, and so you can affect what actually happens. So are the decisions which you make.

Dorothy: It's very hard to understand that if a spirit really knows what is going to happen, why then ages ago is the decision not made to avoid the bad or unpleasant situation, that things are not started so that we wouldn't have the situation in front of us.

Verna: The spirit only knows the very broad general outline and that can be changed by the way in which you act in each situation.

Dorothy: In other words there is action and reaction.

Verna: It is trends all the time. Tell me what is the time?

Guy: Nine-thirty.

Margaret: In some ways, I suppose I am not right, but some of the things which are happening today seem so terrible, it seems to be one of the worst times in history - the degradation of people.

Verna: This time in the history of the world is no worse than it ever has been. If you look back at some of the things that have been done in history.

Georgina: It's just the media coverage probably.

Janet: It seems worse because we are living in it - its different to reading about it in a history book.

Verna: You see, before you had such good communication you didn't know about all these things, but it is no worse now than it has ever been.

Dorothy: How can you compare things that Caligula did with what Idi Amin did. But it's just that we heard about Idi Amin on the TV.

Verna: These days you are also not so willing to just accept, but they had to in those days.

Guy: There is something different Verna because for the first time in all history I think, the world is now linked in one interdependent whole, it has never been that before.

Verna: That is true.

Guy: So there is a new stage coming.

Georgina: I read a spiritualist healing book in which the healing spirit said that man will not find a cure for cancer until animals are not used in experiments.

Verna: This is an area in which I do not know much about. Breakthroughs will come, but there will always be something.

Margaret: There has to be because people do it to themselves.

Verna: Well, there has to be an excuse for the body to die.

Guy: At what level is the decision made to go, Verna? It is not the ego who decides. Who decides when enough is enough?

Verna: It is a decision which is made at all levels of your mind, being, soul. You just decide that it is time to go. But if there is just one level which says "No, I want to do something else", it won't.

Guy: All want to agree.

Isia: What about those people in the London sub-way fire, did they all want to go?

Margaret: Even something like that?

Verna: Yes, because if they hadn't made that decision they wouldn't have been there, or they would not have been killed, they would have been one of the survivors.

Dorothy: I read a book that said even the suicides know when it is time to go, and it doesn't succeed if they weren't meant to go.

Verna: At some level the decision was changed.

Janet: What do you think of the concept of passive resistance?

Verna: It is a good one.

Janet: When we were talking before about the problems and the moral dilemma about either defending someone you could help or standing back and letting it happen because of the greater good! I was thinking really that was what Christ was doing when he died and went to the cross. So it is reasonable to assume that if enough people could be educated to passive resistance, then you could eliminate the violence provided that could be maintained?

Verna: True, if you can do it as Gandhi did. You need someone, a leader, with that amount of control over the others.

Georgina: If such a person arose today, those in opposition may kidnap a member of their family, or some close worker, or torture them, would that person be strong enough to continue in those circumstance?

Verna: As I understand it, it is possible.
If you will excuse me, I will bring tonight's proceedings to a close. Thank you all for coming.

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