VERNA AND CREATIVITY
Imagine a golden circle spinning faster and faster
around us. As it spins it is beginning to rise and is taking us with
it. We are going up through the roof, gradually higher and higher. Look
down and you can see the world beneath us, see the city, see the
country. Now you can see the oceans and the other countries gradually
getting smaller and smaller. Now look up and around us. Everything is
jet black, a soft, velvet, safe blackness. This is the void, the
Godness.Look at the stars that you can see twinkling, the beautiful
silver stars - the golden stars. Look at them. - Reach out and touch
them. Hold them in your hand, play with them. Throw them up and catch
them. Throw them away and catch another. Play with them like children.
Sometime you will be able to play with stars like this - when you are
beginning to express the Godness within you.
See, you are at a rainbow, see the seven coloured
bands stretching away from you. Climb that rainbow. Feel yourself
bathed in the beautiful golden lights. Those seven lights make the one
pure light. - Feel yourselves bathed in that one pure light. - Feel the
peace of the Godness that one day you will merge back into.
Oh God of Peace, O God of love,
We are thy children,
Guide us, Inspire us.
Let us know thy blessings, every minute of the
day, Let us seek thy love and peace,
Let us know that it is within us, there for the
asking, Provided by the God as a father provides for his children.(Pause)
Come back down that rainbow, into our golden ring.
The rainbow is fading, the doorway to Godness is fading. But we can
open that doorway whenever we wish. - And one day we will go through
that doorway to the state of peace and love that we can barely glimpse
but one day it will be ours. - Look around at the stars that one day we
will be able to make. - See them fading, becoming smaller. - As you
return to our world, see the earth becoming bigger and bigger. - See
our country and our city. - Come back to this room and be at peace.
Know that you can have this experience whenever you sit and think of
it. I do hope everyone enjoyed that meditation tonight. (General
agreement) It was a special one given to you from Arrian. Did you all
have a lovely experience? (General agreement) You see it is useful for
us to know when you are having these experiences in our meditations,
because it helps us to give you the things that you respond to most.
Margaret: I think everybody would have to
respond to that one. It was so peaceful and beautiful.
Georgina: And very joyous too.
Verna: It also helps us to hear from you
what you are experiencing. It gives us an idea of how you are
Isia: It felt like skipping.
Verna: That is good because this is a joyous
time of the year coming up, and in these next two or three circles we
are trying to lead up to that. And we are anxious for you to understand
that there is more to the world of spirit than what you usually think
about in this philosophy. You hear so much about the conditions when
you first come over here, and how you can provide your own surroundings
and all that sort of thing, and some of that is really very exciting
because you have all sorts of wonderful things like flying around if
you want to - it can be fun. But we would like you to understand that
there is more to life over here than just that. You also hear often
about the ways in which you can help other spirits, spirits of people
who have some difficulties and have brought material conditions over
here with them. You also hear about Halls of Learning and you can
expand and extend yourselves. There are ways in which you can make
objects with which you are familiar. But we also want you to know about
the other states, states that you can go into in which you too, can
actually take part in creating worlds as you know them. You see, the
steps of going through the Halls of Learning and learning to create
things by thought in the spirit world are leading up to this stage.
First you have to let go of the material
conditions. Sometimes you need to work things through, and we are
anxious that you understand that you do not HAVE to reincarnate back
into your world. If you do, you see, you are hanging on to the material
conditions. We are anxious that you understand that you can let them
go. And a part of that is when you get to the point at which you can
help other spirits, who haven't yet realised this and you can work with
them and this also helps you to let go of your material conditions -
those little last vestiges.
Often what ties you back into the world more than
anything is the people that you have left behind - the attachments that
you have made - and you all have to, eventually, let them go.
Many people only finally let them go when the last
person comes over into the spirit world. This doesn't matter, because
you may have things to work out with those people that you have left
behind. But then you can move on to the Halls of Learning where you can
start learning about mind expansion. We have often described this to
you as merging with other souls around you - souls with whom you are
compatible. It's an awfully difficult concept to get across to you,
because it is an expansion and a merging with others so that you have
many more experiences on which to call. Its a much broader range of
experience, understanding, general knowledge perhaps, and you are
starting to understand very much more about the working of the mind and
the thought processes. At first you use this in creating objects such
as you may have created in the material world - pictures and sounds and
so forth. But very much different to this. True, they may simply be
bigger, they may have more depth to them, and you get to the point
where they also have more sort of movement and light to them, and that
is the beginning.
You move into spheres where the thought processes
have let go of the material concepts. Often this will be stages where
it is something like the gemstones, you can see the colours and you can
see the lights that they reflect. But they are not really the same. But
that is the closest analogy that I can give you. And it is at this
stage where you are beginning to enter the act of creation, because
these surroundings that you find yourself in are so very tenuous and so
fine, and eventually you just go through them, and that's when
creativity really starts. By this time, of course, you have expanded
and extended yourself very much more.
You see, my difficulty is that I have not yet
experienced this, I have caught glimpses of it and it is terribly
difficult for me to really bring it through to you - its expansion and
the ability to create. But I do know that it is a very joyful stage,
its a very playful stage. And there is one stage beyond it at which you
let go even that, and there is a stage beyond that at which you reach
the final merging.
So do not get TOO caught up with your anticipation
of what you are going to experience over here. You will enjoy that
stage too. That, too, is a form of creation because you will be forming
your surroundings. And the things that you make in your world, too, are
a part of the process, a part of your training, because you have to
think it through first - you have to create the thought idea and then
you start with it and you make it material. But the big thing is the
It does not matter what you make, but try to do
things where it is all yours right from the initial thought. That is
the biggest training for creation later.
How many of you think "I am no good at making
anything?" You are. You create things every day - even if it is only a
meal. you see even that you have to plan. You have to work out
beforehand. You have to see what you have available. Perhaps you are
only planting in the garden - but you still have to think it first -
you still have to plan. Even the act of creating a child is part of the
process - especially as you have to train that child. That process is
not entirely dependent on the parents, the child has a great say in it
too, but you are still contributing. Even your acts of keeping house -
you still have to plan it and create, don't you?
Margaret: I suppose we think of it more as
every-day mundane things.
Verna: But you still are creating something
- you are creating a home. So it doesn't have to be great works of art.
It may be a bit of pleasure that you give someone - that is creating.
What is available over here is really very much greater than any
concept you can have and any concept that I can give you. You have just
been shown what is there.
Isia: I've just been told to give you a box
of Turkish delight, from a friend of yours. Someone said that you liked
it very much.
Verna: Yes. I did once have Turkish Delight.
I accept it.
Janet: Did you come from an area where
Turkish Delight was once a sweetening dish?
Verna: It was brought to us. Especially at
Margaret: I think you have made us all feel
too peaceful and steady, Verna.
Verna: That's all right. Maybe some of you
Dorothy: Maybe it was meant to make us think.
Verna: No. Just to be.
Isia: Do you have any pets over there?
Verna: Oh, Yes.
Isia: They are always around, are they?
Verna: Every pet you have ever looked after
will meet you. Some of you are going to have problems.
Isia: I am looking forward to having animal
friends there too.
Verna: You see, the animal kingdom forms one
of the strands - strand is really the only word I can use (feeling
slightly frustrated), but you know about analogies. - There is one big
tree trunk all being twisted round and, eventually, animals too merge
back into the Godness, because originally they, too, came from Godness.
So they will be there, and you will have much better communication with
Guy: When we reach the stage where we
create, some mischievous or cranky individuals may also reach a stage
to create, and create creepy-crawlies and bugs and all kind of things.
Is that how they came to be made?
Verna: Well, don't forget we had to make
something to feed the birds and the fishes.
Guy: Fleas on dogs are just made to feed on
Verna: Well, as I said, it is a play time.
Guy: Some rather cranky entity made many
things. Would that be right?
Verna: I don't really know. I shall have to
ask some one to find out.
Janet: At least the fleas let you know the
Verna: You see, there always has to be a
flaw somewhere, because Godness provided the initial basic building
block and that is perfect. But this creation isn't by perfect people -
there will always be faults.
Guy: That is what I am aiming at. The
spirits who have reached the stage of being able to create are far from
Verna: Not FAR from perfect.
Guy: Well, not perfect, so they mess things
Verna: Well, they wouldn't, but don't forget
that you people also have some input.
Janet: But isn't the power to create life,
something that only lies with God?
Verna: It depends on what you mean by life.
The incoming spirit has to be God but you can mould it, you can affect
it, interact with it. Are you not made in his image?
Margaret: I think we find that a little hard
to - you know - we almost thin 'Oh, no. That cannot be.'
Verna: Because you consider your earthly
personality. You have to go within.
Georgina: Verna, do we create our own
bodies? I understand that we have - now you tell me.
Verna: It is rather you select a body which
suits what you want to do. That suits your prime purpose. But you can
affect it to some degree, but it is largely seeing what is available -
'largely'. You understand that there are always exceptions to every
rule - we can only tell you about what USUALLY happens.
Georgina: Can it be that what is available
for selection will be made according to genetic blueprints. Is that
Verna: Yes. Largely.
Janet: So you can see what you look like
before you are born?
Verna: And then, of course, you have some
input to it, by the way you treat it. So there is a lot of interaction
and your thoughts and your intentions and your overall attitudes which
show on your face, too. And so you can affect what is given
genetically. The plainest face can look beautiful if it has a beautiful
Margaret: Like the saying : There is no
plain bride on her wedding day.
Verna: That's right.
Dorothy: So are babies as far as their
mothers are concerned.
Verna: And a lot of other people.
Dorothy: We are coming up to a joyous time
as you said. There are celebrations going on, on your side and on our
side, are you doing anything in particular on your side?
Verna: Well, we only have to think of things
you see, but we are already receiving the changed vibrations from the
world. You see, every time there is a big religious festival the
vibrations change, and people tend to - at least in the area where the
festival is - to become happier and excited and, perhaps, more tolerant
of other people. We feel these changed vibrations, and that's what
comes to u.Dorothy; Does that mean that anything you feel from our
vibrations in this world on your is that much more felt by you?
Verna: Yes, because everything is vibration
and the communication between souls on this side is by vibration, and
we are aware of the vibrations on your side too.
Georgina: There has been a lot in the papers
lately about the terrible conditions in prisons here. Do spirits have
any idea about the way criminals should be treated or how they could be
Verna: A lot of the criminal's sort of
behaviour arises out of their experiences in your world - a lot of it,
you understand - and the way a person reacts to it. It is sort of basic
outlook on the world, and you need to be able to change that person's
outlook and 'inlook'. The way they feel about themselves. Now this is
extremely difficult - you do need to shield other people from the
criminal element. Even in the most 'primitive' societies that the world
has experienced, there were the misfits - the people who would not obey
what rules of society there were. So it is not just a phenomena of your
society. Often these people were coming with the idea of changing
something in society - that was one of their ideas for coming through -
and so they saw society in a different way to the rest of the people in
that society. Then naturally, they were in a minority, they were not
getting very far, and so they developed a rebelling attitude. Of
course, there were people who were able to do what they had come for -
shall we say, they went about it in an appropriate manner for that
society. We cannot give you an easy way of dealing with this, there are
people in your society who are attempting to gain understanding of
human behaviour. But at the moment they are focusing far too much on
the material manifestations, but we expect they will get over that in
time. It is a very fine 'knife edge' which you have to draw.
Janet: Not all the criminals are in jail
though, are they?
Verna: No. We are trying to work with people
who are interested in that problem because, you see, when those
criminals come on our side they are still going to have these problems,
and we will still have to work with them. So we are trying to work with
the material conditions as well, now. There will be mistakes made,
there will be injustices, but there are gropings being made to correct
it, and in time answers will come forward. You need to find some way to
improving their basic self-concept, and their concept of society and
other people. We are not sure that the present state is correct, it is
evolving from a previous state, which was even more incorrect and
eventually it will evolve forward. We cannot give you an easy 'pat'
answer. Because it still comes back to the basic interaction of the
incoming soul, its immediate surroundings and life experiences. There
are those rebels who will go about things in an appropriate manner and
there are those who can't.
Janet: What would you do about someone like
the Ayatollah Khomeini? Is he not a criminal?
Verna: I don't know what to do about him. I
assure you there are many of us who are very concerned about that
gentleman, and we are trying to work in that area. But remember that
even he is a drop of Godness. Pray for him.
Dorothy: How does he justify his actions
because he is supposed to be a leader of their religion isn't he?
Verna: That's right. It is how the original
message given has been misinterpreted over the years.
Margaret: But undoubtedly he believes in
everything he says. Of course that sort of person really frightens me.
Anybody who is a fanatic about anything frightens me.
Janet: But isn't there a more important
issue? And that is that there is a question of degree with what you
want to call the criminal element. You have the people who Georgina
mentioned, who in many ways are the more petty types, and you have the
hidden operator at the macro level - like the Ayatollah, or Hitler, or
Fidel Castro - you name any number of them and what you have to look at
is the source of the problem. So how do we in a society that has
developed today, cope with the problems which now lies before us.
Hundreds of years ago it would have been dealt with more effectively in
a society which was so much better equipped to cope with these
Verna: The thing that you as individuals,
can do in your society is to pray for them. To direct love to them
because as long as you direct hate at these people, they will be
receiving that hate and feeding on it. So love, send love to them,
don't condone what they are doing. I do not know if you were present
when we talked about the work that we had to do with Mr. Hitler. When
he came over here and he went through his life review, he became
completely rigid with horror at what he had unleashed. And more than
one group was involved in sending love to him, and it was that love
that was able to unlock him, because it was the first time that he had
really experienced unconditional love. When he realised what that was,
then he was able to start working on the people who had suffered at his
hands. Many of them could only be released from THEIR hate by him. He
had to show them love.
Dorothy: So, as the other people here said,
about the criminals today on this earth, they will have to face
probably the same thing.
Verna: That's right.
Dorothy: Being rigid with shock at what
Janet: But look at what motivates most
people to be criminals, particularly at that level. Its the problem
that we have about repetitiveness and people's desire for power, to be
above everyone else - there are some people who cannot be happy with
their being equal to others.
Verna: It's as though as soon as man
settled, some have to be leaders, and you do need leaders in a group,
in a society like yours.
Janet: Benevolent leaders.
Verna: Yes, but you need leaders, but it is
the wrong type of leader that causes a lot of problems, and I think
that this is what you are concerned about.
(Break in recording)
Dorothy: That means we have to learn to be
tolerant of each other, then these things wouldn't happen.
Verna: If you can get it through the society
so that it is part of society's whole mores. This is one of the things
which the world is having to learn - bring this tolerance, this
acceptance about. This is the preparation for the new type which is to
come, and there will be many social upheavals. If you look at the
patterns of history of your world this century, you have had the whites
moving into the blacks area but you have also had a lot of blacks who
have moved into the whites' area. So there is a tremendous mixing going
on. And so many difficulties come because you have material assets.
Janet: So what does this do or mean in the
meantime? When a black person or an Asian person see their children, or
parents or their family, the people that they love, slaughtered before
their eyes, are they supposed to stand back and not do anything to help?
Verna: It makes no difference what the race
is, all people suffer the same in those conditions.
Janet: That is not the issue I am driving at
- if someone you love is at risk of their lives - you must defend.
Verna: You have to act ethically yourself.
Janet: The trouble is that it starts off as
one individual's action which is one you have to take in defence.
Dorothy: But how can you justify that
protection which causes you to kill a person?
Janet: The trouble is that it is not really
the means to the end.
Verna: Your world will never be perfect, and
you are constantly faced with these choices and you can but choose
which, to you, is the better one.
Janet: Would it be considered a crime in the
Spirit world to not act to protect someone whose life is at risk if you
could help them?
Verna: To us sin is when you prevent the
manifestation of Godness. We look at a person's intent. Now, because we
are all part of Godness, because basically there is that under-linking
underneath, what you do to one person, you do to yourself. And this why
when you go through your life's review, you feel what you have done to
other people. And there are some people who have been in very humble
circumstances, who would feel just as much remorse as what to someone
else may be quite a small sin or crime in your words, compared to what
some of the leaders have done, and yet that humble person will suffer
just as much as the 'great' person.
Janet: But you are talking about acting from
the individual point of view. You are confronted with choices - you
could either choose passive resistance which is a ways equated with
saying "I will let this person die even if I could help them because I
know that to help them would only lead to continuing the larger
problem" which might be apartheid or it might be anything else. On the
other hand you can do what you feel would be morally right for you as
one individual to protect that person. You have the dilemma of the two
- the greater good or the individual situation.
Verna: Basically it is your own decision.
You are in the world to make decisions. It's one of the experiences
that we are here to gain.
Margaret: Yes, you have told us that before
Verna. It's very hard.
Verna: It is.
Dorothy: What I find hard, Verna, is that
when a spirit comes into a baby's body, before or just after they are
born, you say that the spirit knows what our life is going to be like,
how it ends, so it knows that there is also the possibility that it
Verna: The incoming soul knows the broad
general outline. Now, as you are in one situation, so you can influence
what comes next, and so you can affect what actually happens. So are
the decisions which you make.
Dorothy: It's very hard to understand that
if a spirit really knows what is going to happen, why then ages ago is
the decision not made to avoid the bad or unpleasant situation, that
things are not started so that we wouldn't have the situation in front
Verna: The spirit only knows the very broad
general outline and that can be changed by the way in which you act in
Dorothy: In other words there is action and
Verna: It is trends all the time. Tell me
what is the time?
Margaret: In some ways, I suppose I am not
right, but some of the things which are happening today seem so
terrible, it seems to be one of the worst times in history - the
degradation of people.
Verna: This time in the history of the world
is no worse than it ever has been. If you look back at some of the
things that have been done in history.
Georgina: It's just the media coverage
Janet: It seems worse because we are living
in it - its different to reading about it in a history book.
Verna: You see, before you had such good
communication you didn't know about all these things, but it is no
worse now than it has ever been.
Dorothy: How can you compare things that
Caligula did with what Idi Amin did. But it's just that we heard about
Idi Amin on the TV.
Verna: These days you are also not so
willing to just accept, but they had to in those days.
Guy: There is something different Verna
because for the first time in all history I think, the world is now
linked in one interdependent whole, it has never been that before.
Verna: That is true.
Guy: So there is a new stage coming.
Georgina: I read a spiritualist healing book
in which the healing spirit said that man will not find a cure for
cancer until animals are not used in experiments.
Verna: This is an area in which I do not
know much about. Breakthroughs will come, but there will always be
Margaret: There has to be because people do
it to themselves.
Verna: Well, there has to be an excuse for
the body to die.
Guy: At what level is the decision made to
go, Verna? It is not the ego who decides. Who decides when enough is
Verna: It is a decision which is made at all
levels of your mind, being, soul. You just decide that it is time to
go. But if there is just one level which says "No, I want to do
something else", it won't.
Guy: All want to agree.
Isia: What about those people in the London
sub-way fire, did they all want to go?
Margaret: Even something like that?
Verna: Yes, because if they hadn't made that
decision they wouldn't have been there, or they would not have been
killed, they would have been one of the survivors.
Dorothy: I read a book that said even the
suicides know when it is time to go, and it doesn't succeed if they
weren't meant to go.
Verna: At some level the decision was
Janet: What do you think of the concept of
Verna: It is a good one.
Janet: When we were talking before about the
problems and the moral dilemma about either defending someone you could
help or standing back and letting it happen because of the greater
good! I was thinking really that was what Christ was doing when he died
and went to the cross. So it is reasonable to assume that if enough
people could be educated to passive resistance, then you could
eliminate the violence provided that could be maintained?
Verna: True, if you can do it as Gandhi did.
You need someone, a leader, with that amount of control over the others.
Georgina: If such a person arose today,
those in opposition may kidnap a member of their family, or some close
worker, or torture them, would that person be strong enough to continue
in those circumstance?
Verna: As I understand it, it is possible.
If you will excuse me, I will bring tonight's proceedings to a close.
Thank you all for coming.
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