VERNA - DISCUSSION SESSION
I apologise for being slow to come through tonight, I
am having difficulties with the cough the medium has. it tends to make
the aura shake and this makes it difficult for us to come through.I
first have to bring you greetings from your friend (Jonathan
Armstrong), he asks us to tell you that he is all right now, he is with
his dog, his woof dog and he thanks you for your thoughts and loving
prayers. He has accepted what has happened. he is still in a state
where he is resting, it will be a little while yet before he really
starts his progression and work, but he wishes to thank you all. your
loving thoughts did help him to settle down. His previous knowledge
too, has helped him, and he should quite soon be moving further away
from the earthly vibrations and pull.
Because of the small number present tonight, we do
not have an actually prepared talk, so we thought we would ask you
first if there was anything you wanted discussed, or any points you
wanted to raise with us.
Gina: There was a request for help for a
girl seriously ill in a Sydney hospital after an accident. This had
been mentioned before the circle began.
Verna: We heard your comments about her
before we started this evening. As I understand it, there is a
considerable number of spirits around her. There are not only her
regular guides and helpers, but there are other spirits there - those
who are not attached to anyone or any place in particular, but they go
to wherever extra spiritual help is needed, and there are several of
these souls with her. The girl in question has not made up her mind
which way she wants to go. This is why she is on the border line for so
long, she has to make the decision. And the souls around her are there
to give her support, but she has to make the decision herself. They are
not influencing her decision in any way. They are there just to make a
sort of 'safe' area for her to make the decision. The souls around her
will do their best to make sure that she is safe. Much depends on her
own attitude as you probably realise. I think she will be fairly
Gina: She had a good talking to occasionally
to try to get the word across.
Verna: People usually do.
Gina: I just wanted to make sure she would
Verna: Think about her each evening. Not
wishing for anything in particular but just hold the thought of her in
your mind with loving care.
Gina: Will she be O.K?
Gina: I am not worrying about the physical
body, but just that she will be O.K.
Verna: Yes, just hold those loving thoughts,
the feeling of love for her. That's the best thing you can do.
Therese: I would like to know how I can know
that my three consciousnesses are in harmony.
Verna: The level of harmony between the
three levels of your mind is usually indicated by your own emotional
and mental patterns. If all in your own immediate sphere feels right
and settled and calm, and we mean in your own very immediate sphere,
then you can be reasonably certain that all levels of your mind are
presently working in harmony. This harmony can be troubled if something
in your environment is disturbing you, but if it is something from
someone else it should not seriously trouble your own harmony. It will
usually be a sort of surface, only on the material level disturbance.
When you can feel that in spite of any material disturbances or upsets,
you still have that stable secure inner core, then the levels of your
mind are working harmoniously and together, and you are going in the
right direction. Naturally, the material level of your mind will react
to your environment, but if you can feel that inner core that is still
steadfast, then you can be reasonably certain that you are working in
the right direction. And you should be able to draw on that inner core
to give you directions and re-assurance about your material concerns.
Those are your prime concerns while you are in a material body, and as
you move through your life the emotional concerns and the spiritual
concerns will, from time to time, rise - you know about
directionlessness, but that is the best term we can use - rise to the
forefront and will subside again. So do not be concerned if at times
you feel that you are being drawn into the material world more, and
that the material concerns attain some importance more than your mental
and spiritual concerns. As long as at some time during the day you can
still contact that inner core the three levels will be acting
harmoniously and, in time the emotional or spiritual concerns will come
to the fore again.
Naturally with the wide expressions available to
mankind, you will find some people for whom the emotional and spiritual
are of no concern at all. But those of you who are, who have a basic
interest in spiritual concerns, in all their many manifestations, you
will still find the ebb and flow, and do not worry if at times you are
absorbed by material concerns. Keep trying to, at least at some period
during the day or night, to contact that inner core, and the
re-assurance you get from that will indicate to you how well your three
levels are interacting. As long as you can feel that calmness at
sometime you are operating with one accord.
Gina: I can feel it now. I can feel that
peace, peace, acceptance which the spirit wishes. It's just sort of,
I've felt it one time before, when you were talking about this too, and
it's just a sort of incredible acceptance of what's happening, and it's
exciting as well. It's going to be fun going over to the other side.
Verna: We feel it's fun.
Guy: Or to put it in another way, how to
know that all the three levels are working in harmony. Suppose I have
to make a decision in my life, which is important to me. My decision
will form my reality, if my three levels are in harmony and agree to
materialise the decision. Now, if I understand you rightly Verna, if I
am completely happy and at peace about my decision, that is a
reasonable reassurance that all three levels agree?
Guy: But if there is a nagging little this,
or a nagging little that, somewhere there is a disagreement.
Verna: Yes, that is well put.
Gina: A complex and philosophical point
which has just been put very clearly. I keep on getting the impression
here that I'm sort of haven't even got to kindergarten yet, and
everyone else is a least in third year high school.
Therese: I think I would put you a little
higher than that.
Verna: As soon as you become interested in spiritual matters,
you are already several steps ahead of the majority of people.
Gina: Yes, but my knowledge of philosophy is lower than that
of another person.
Verna: It is experience, and, as you said
before, that acceptance and the contact within yourself. Knowledge has
nothing to do with it. Sometimes knowledge gets in the way.
Gina: By the way, I haven't asked you this
yet, but can one pass a message to Tim, (Tim Herbert) and say thank you
very much for what he has got me involved in.
Verna: I don't think I need to pass it on.
You see as soon as you think it, it goes directly to him.
Gina: It's just that I wasn't really
involved with this until the night before his funeral. He is the one
who woke me up to all this and a whole world which the general society
just never showed. And I just wanted to say thank you.
Verna: It is very nice that you have that
feeling of thanks to him. But it has been directed to him. There is a
Gina: Well, I'm still stuck on earth.
Verna: You still have work to do. It isn't
Gina: I realised that after a while. I realised that he
wouldn't have a necessity to be here any more. But it took me a long
while to realise it.
Gina: I am just enjoying the feeling that
I've got about it all.
Verna: Carry on enjoying it.
Gina: It's like getting stoned.
Verna: Yes, we think it is too.
Gina: It's rather like being stoned, on
Verna: The trick is to maintain that
feeling, and still work in the material world.
Gina: Without the happiness slipping away?
Verna: If you could hold that feeling even
when you are having to work, perhaps at something you dislike, when
there are conditions around you that are not really to your liking,
there's a word I can't find at the moment, vibes, but that isn't really
the word I want. Never mind. If you can hold that feeling, in spite of
everything else and still go about your material world, you will have
progressed many steps. It is easy enough, shall we say, to get drunk
with religion and go wandering off and become a hermit or something.
It's a lot harder to maintain it and work in the material world. You
make sure progress when you can do that.
(A comment was made about the African concert
organised by Bob Geldof, and Verna said that Christ's love, attitude,
would have been working through the people who organised that concert.)
We know about that concert and what was achieved
through it. Not HIM (Christ) as a a person, but the feeling and love He
had would have been working through all those people. There was some
Therese: I'm still not sure about healing. I speak about
myself, I'm not concerned about my body, and yet it would be wonderful
to pass on in good health. Because when I can use my body here still in
the way I like, I want to live. So I really don't know if - I can't
Gina: You mean organ donation?
Guy: Many old people spend their last years
in wheel-chairs racked by this or that particular problem or disease
and deteriorate. How good it would be, just to leave when the time is
ripe with the body still intact and in good health, and how by our
design or wish we can actually bring this about. If our three levels
agree that this is the right course, it will so happen. If I
consciously want this, perhaps one third of the decision is already
made. If my sub-conscious and super-conscious will agree, it will be
so. Probably, this is why Therese asked how do we know that they agree.
In other words if I wish to go in this way, with my body in good health
- just a heart attack, and I go, can I actually bring this to happen in
reality? How can I influence my higher self to think along those lines?
Verna: The only thing you can do is to hold this picture in
the mind. We have talked about this before, using imagination. Many of
these people who deteriorate badly in their last years, are people who
are afraid to let the body go and so they hang on to it. Now, we have
said to you before, the body has to have a reason to go, and so there
will be some sort of illness which is the commonest cause of what you
call death. An illness or an accident causing severe damage to the
body. And so we have the body which is, shall we say, trying to die,
and the person is afraid to let it go, and so they hang on to it. Now,
if you have a younger person who has one of these severe degenerative
type illnesses, such as arthritis perhaps, they have taken that on for
some specific purpose. It may be to test themselves, it may be to
enable other people to express love and concern, caring, there are many
reasons for that.
There is also needed a certain mental and
emotional vitality to enable you to take the difficulties and set-backs
of life. If you have that emotional - vitality is the only word we can
use - you can rise above.
Verna: Yes, resilience is a good word. You
may find that, you may know people who are quite active, both mentally
and physically, but when something drastic happens, for instance, the
death of a spouse, and sometimes you will see that person quite
suddenly disintegrate. And they are the kind of person who have a
certain amount of vitality, but not enough to rise above such a
set-back, and that too, can be another cause of this deterioration of
How do you maintain that vitality? That is the
Gina: Keeping well in the head. Keeping an
interest in life, and keeping an ability to look to the future rather
than living in the past.
Verna: And drawing on that inner core will
enable you to do so.
Gina: Being interested to get up and see
what is going to happen.
Verna: And making something happen.
Gina: Yes, that's true. If you do something
exciting, life is exciting. If you view life as exciting you are
putting out positive vibrations and consequently things - I'll be shot
down for saying this - but things become attracted to you and more
things happen. Whereas if you just go along in life and act like a we
door-mat, nothing will happen. And if anything does happen it will be
Verna: Remember, people are magnets. We
would quite agree with you saying that you attract certain conditions.
That isn't exactly the whole story, but attraction does occur.
Gina: It's just that I've found things going
on, and life's interesting and life's exciting, it's a positive
feed-back. But when things are bad, it's a negative feed-back, until
you manage to snap yourself out of it. When you get negative feed-back
you feel old.
Verna: But there will be a certain amount of
that set-back when a crisis emerges, but you look on it now as a
challenge. And having that inner core, contacting that inner core, will
help you to do so. Is this the kind of thing you wanted? (To Therese)
or is there something else?
Therese: That's fine. My attitude now is, to
accept whatever happens, and say "It's O.K." If I sit in a wheel-chair,
it's O.K. If I will be blind it's O.K. I still can be a very positive
asset to my surroundings. It's O.K.
Verna: Acceptance is the big thing, and if
you can maintain your mental positive attitude in spite of whatever
difficulties may come your way. Remember that at the very least you
will be setting an example, you will be showing what can be done. Being
a light to other people. when you have this positive attitude, you will
attract other people to you. Sometimes this will just be a surface
thing, but eventually it will sink through all the way in. So even if
you start out just by acting that way, and you may need at times to
lean on somebody, and to acknowledge that you are unhappy, but then it
can bring forth a positive approach again.
Gina: Pick yourself up again.
Verna: Do not reject any help that is being
offered to you, at times you may need it. This is a complicated thing
but, there are so many ifs and buts in life.
Sometimes, opening up and letting someone else
know that you are unhappy about something can be beneficial, both to
you and the other person. It enables the other person to express love
back to you. But when it gets to the point where that is what you are
doing all the time, and you are completely draining other people, that
is when it gets negative all round, and you then start to sink. But do
not think that you have to be utterly strong and brave and independent
all the time.
Gina: Someone gives you a hand to help pick
you up, accept the help to pick you up but don't rely on it all the
time. You can do it under your own steam.
Guy: There is a problem person, the medium
knows who she is, we have been discussing her. What would you think, is
the best way to handle her sort of problem?
Verna: She is a very difficult case.
Because, as this medium has said, the more attention you give her
because of this negative approach she has, the more she is likely to
keep on with it.
Gina: Read her the riot act?
Verna: I don't know if that would help this
particular person. She has a very low self-image, she is very depressed
and she has been like this since childhood. And if you look at your
society, if somebody is down, if somebody - do you remember a incident
when this medium said that she is not artistic? She hasn't any artistic
ability. And you and your friend immediately started saying "Oh, yes,
you are." That's how it is in your society - you immediately rush to
reassure and make the person feel good again. But this can get to the
point where someone may, not consciously, but they find people saying
nice things to them every time that they are depressed or are putting
Gina: They think, they are only saying that
to cheer me up, they don't really mean it?
Verna: And one way of getting these
compliments is to carry on putting yourself down. When this is started
in early childhood, it gets very ingrained.
Guy: Well, what do you recommend for her
Verna: We think if we can get her into the
organisation that has been suggested, that may help. It has the
potential to help because, as the medium has said, in that organisation
you receive your 'strokes', but you are also forced to give them back
to other people. This is something this lass needs to learn. She is
very wrapped up in herself, she really needs something to make her
aware of the difficulties that other people have. She is not the only
one in that state. There are others who are worse. The trouble is that
she is draining everyone around her.
Gina: How about assertiveness training? Such
courses at university have been very successful in raising girls'
Verna: We do feel that some sort of group
work would benefit her. The assertiveness type of thing is one aspect
and would probably, could be, a first step. But the group which has
been suggested, if she would go to it, would also help. It is more
spiritually based than the ordinary psychological group. Possibly a
mixture of both giving a balance. She does need too, some social skills
training, helping her to conduct a conversation type thing, if we can
find groups in your city operating like that, I am not too sure about
the straight encounter groups.
Therese: What about Sage?
Verna: We are not too certain about which
approach Sage takes.
Therese: It's a mixture.
Verna: You still need to avoid the situation
where she will become the centre of attention if she is depressed and
miserable and starts crying. The problem with groups is that you can
get good ones and ones that are not so good.
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