VERNA - DISCUSSION SESSION

13.9.85

I apologise for being slow to come through tonight, I am having difficulties with the cough the medium has. it tends to make the aura shake and this makes it difficult for us to come through.I first have to bring you greetings from your friend (Jonathan Armstrong), he asks us to tell you that he is all right now, he is with his dog, his woof dog and he thanks you for your thoughts and loving prayers. He has accepted what has happened. he is still in a state where he is resting, it will be a little while yet before he really starts his progression and work, but he wishes to thank you all. your loving thoughts did help him to settle down. His previous knowledge too, has helped him, and he should quite soon be moving further away from the earthly vibrations and pull.

Because of the small number present tonight, we do not have an actually prepared talk, so we thought we would ask you first if there was anything you wanted discussed, or any points you wanted to raise with us.

Gina: There was a request for help for a girl seriously ill in a Sydney hospital after an accident. This had been mentioned before the circle began.

Verna: We heard your comments about her before we started this evening. As I understand it, there is a considerable number of spirits around her. There are not only her regular guides and helpers, but there are other spirits there - those who are not attached to anyone or any place in particular, but they go to wherever extra spiritual help is needed, and there are several of these souls with her. The girl in question has not made up her mind which way she wants to go. This is why she is on the border line for so long, she has to make the decision. And the souls around her are there to give her support, but she has to make the decision herself. They are not influencing her decision in any way. They are there just to make a sort of 'safe' area for her to make the decision. The souls around her will do their best to make sure that she is safe. Much depends on her own attitude as you probably realise. I think she will be fairly receptive.

Gina: She had a good talking to occasionally to try to get the word across.

Verna: People usually do.

Gina: I just wanted to make sure she would be O.K.

Verna: Think about her each evening. Not wishing for anything in particular but just hold the thought of her in your mind with loving care.

Gina: Will she be O.K?

Verna: Yes.

Gina: I am not worrying about the physical body, but just that she will be O.K.

Verna: Yes, just hold those loving thoughts, the feeling of love for her. That's the best thing you can do.

Therese: I would like to know how I can know that my three consciousnesses are in harmony.

Verna: The level of harmony between the three levels of your mind is usually indicated by your own emotional and mental patterns. If all in your own immediate sphere feels right and settled and calm, and we mean in your own very immediate sphere, then you can be reasonably certain that all levels of your mind are presently working in harmony. This harmony can be troubled if something in your environment is disturbing you, but if it is something from someone else it should not seriously trouble your own harmony. It will usually be a sort of surface, only on the material level disturbance. When you can feel that in spite of any material disturbances or upsets, you still have that stable secure inner core, then the levels of your mind are working harmoniously and together, and you are going in the right direction. Naturally, the material level of your mind will react to your environment, but if you can feel that inner core that is still steadfast, then you can be reasonably certain that you are working in the right direction. And you should be able to draw on that inner core to give you directions and re-assurance about your material concerns. Those are your prime concerns while you are in a material body, and as you move through your life the emotional concerns and the spiritual concerns will, from time to time, rise - you know about directionlessness, but that is the best term we can use - rise to the forefront and will subside again. So do not be concerned if at times you feel that you are being drawn into the material world more, and that the material concerns attain some importance more than your mental and spiritual concerns. As long as at some time during the day you can still contact that inner core the three levels will be acting harmoniously and, in time the emotional or spiritual concerns will come to the fore again.

Naturally with the wide expressions available to mankind, you will find some people for whom the emotional and spiritual are of no concern at all. But those of you who are, who have a basic interest in spiritual concerns, in all their many manifestations, you will still find the ebb and flow, and do not worry if at times you are absorbed by material concerns. Keep trying to, at least at some period during the day or night, to contact that inner core, and the re-assurance you get from that will indicate to you how well your three levels are interacting. As long as you can feel that calmness at sometime you are operating with one accord.

Gina: I can feel it now. I can feel that peace, peace, acceptance which the spirit wishes. It's just sort of, I've felt it one time before, when you were talking about this too, and it's just a sort of incredible acceptance of what's happening, and it's exciting as well. It's going to be fun going over to the other side.

Verna: We feel it's fun.

Guy: Or to put it in another way, how to know that all the three levels are working in harmony. Suppose I have to make a decision in my life, which is important to me. My decision will form my reality, if my three levels are in harmony and agree to materialise the decision. Now, if I understand you rightly Verna, if I am completely happy and at peace about my decision, that is a reasonable reassurance that all three levels agree?

Verna: Yes.

Guy: But if there is a nagging little this, or a nagging little that, somewhere there is a disagreement.

Verna: Yes, that is well put.

Gina: A complex and philosophical point which has just been put very clearly. I keep on getting the impression here that I'm sort of haven't even got to kindergarten yet, and everyone else is a least in third year high school.

Therese: I think I would put you a little higher than that.

Verna: As soon as you become interested in spiritual matters, you are already several steps ahead of the majority of people.

Gina: Yes, but my knowledge of philosophy is lower than that of another person.

Verna: It is experience, and, as you said before, that acceptance and the contact within yourself. Knowledge has nothing to do with it. Sometimes knowledge gets in the way.

Gina: By the way, I haven't asked you this yet, but can one pass a message to Tim, (Tim Herbert) and say thank you very much for what he has got me involved in.

Verna: I don't think I need to pass it on. You see as soon as you think it, it goes directly to him.

Gina: It's just that I wasn't really involved with this until the night before his funeral. He is the one who woke me up to all this and a whole world which the general society just never showed. And I just wanted to say thank you.

Verna: It is very nice that you have that feeling of thanks to him. But it has been directed to him. There is a link there.

Gina: Well, I'm still stuck on earth.

Verna: You still have work to do. It isn't completed yet.

Gina: I realised that after a while. I realised that he wouldn't have a necessity to be here any more. But it took me a long while to realise it.

Verna: Yes.

Gina: I am just enjoying the feeling that I've got about it all.

Verna: Carry on enjoying it.

Gina: It's like getting stoned.

Verna: Yes, we think it is too.

Gina: It's rather like being stoned, on happiness.

Verna: The trick is to maintain that feeling, and still work in the material world.

Gina: Without the happiness slipping away?

Verna: If you could hold that feeling even when you are having to work, perhaps at something you dislike, when there are conditions around you that are not really to your liking, there's a word I can't find at the moment, vibes, but that isn't really the word I want. Never mind. If you can hold that feeling, in spite of everything else and still go about your material world, you will have progressed many steps. It is easy enough, shall we say, to get drunk with religion and go wandering off and become a hermit or something. It's a lot harder to maintain it and work in the material world. You make sure progress when you can do that.

(A comment was made about the African concert organised by Bob Geldof, and Verna said that Christ's love, attitude, would have been working through the people who organised that concert.)

We know about that concert and what was achieved through it. Not HIM (Christ) as a a person, but the feeling and love He had would have been working through all those people. There was some inspiration there.

Therese: I'm still not sure about healing. I speak about myself, I'm not concerned about my body, and yet it would be wonderful to pass on in good health. Because when I can use my body here still in the way I like, I want to live. So I really don't know if - I can't express myself.

Gina: You mean organ donation?

Therese: No.

Guy: Many old people spend their last years in wheel-chairs racked by this or that particular problem or disease and deteriorate. How good it would be, just to leave when the time is ripe with the body still intact and in good health, and how by our design or wish we can actually bring this about. If our three levels agree that this is the right course, it will so happen. If I consciously want this, perhaps one third of the decision is already made. If my sub-conscious and super-conscious will agree, it will be so. Probably, this is why Therese asked how do we know that they agree. In other words if I wish to go in this way, with my body in good health - just a heart attack, and I go, can I actually bring this to happen in reality? How can I influence my higher self to think along those lines?

Verna: The only thing you can do is to hold this picture in the mind. We have talked about this before, using imagination. Many of these people who deteriorate badly in their last years, are people who are afraid to let the body go and so they hang on to it. Now, we have said to you before, the body has to have a reason to go, and so there will be some sort of illness which is the commonest cause of what you call death. An illness or an accident causing severe damage to the body. And so we have the body which is, shall we say, trying to die, and the person is afraid to let it go, and so they hang on to it. Now, if you have a younger person who has one of these severe degenerative type illnesses, such as arthritis perhaps, they have taken that on for some specific purpose. It may be to test themselves, it may be to enable other people to express love and concern, caring, there are many reasons for that.

There is also needed a certain mental and emotional vitality to enable you to take the difficulties and set-backs of life. If you have that emotional - vitality is the only word we can use - you can rise above.

Gina: Resilience?

Verna: Yes, resilience is a good word. You may find that, you may know people who are quite active, both mentally and physically, but when something drastic happens, for instance, the death of a spouse, and sometimes you will see that person quite suddenly disintegrate. And they are the kind of person who have a certain amount of vitality, but not enough to rise above such a set-back, and that too, can be another cause of this deterioration of the body.

How do you maintain that vitality? That is the question.


Gina: Keeping well in the head. Keeping an interest in life, and keeping an ability to look to the future rather than living in the past.


Verna: And drawing on that inner core will enable you to do so.


Gina: Being interested to get up and see what is going to happen.


Verna: And making something happen.

Gina: Yes, that's true. If you do something exciting, life is exciting. If you view life as exciting you are putting out positive vibrations and consequently things - I'll be shot down for saying this - but things become attracted to you and more things happen. Whereas if you just go along in life and act like a we door-mat, nothing will happen. And if anything does happen it will be bad.


Verna: Remember, people are magnets. We would quite agree with you saying that you attract certain conditions. That isn't exactly the whole story, but attraction does occur.

Gina: It's just that I've found things going on, and life's interesting and life's exciting, it's a positive feed-back. But when things are bad, it's a negative feed-back, until you manage to snap yourself out of it. When you get negative feed-back you feel old.


Verna: But there will be a certain amount of that set-back when a crisis emerges, but you look on it now as a challenge. And having that inner core, contacting that inner core, will help you to do so. Is this the kind of thing you wanted? (To Therese) or is there something else?

Therese: That's fine. My attitude now is, to accept whatever happens, and say "It's O.K." If I sit in a wheel-chair, it's O.K. If I will be blind it's O.K. I still can be a very positive asset to my surroundings. It's O.K.

Verna: Acceptance is the big thing, and if you can maintain your mental positive attitude in spite of whatever difficulties may come your way. Remember that at the very least you will be setting an example, you will be showing what can be done. Being a light to other people. when you have this positive attitude, you will attract other people to you. Sometimes this will just be a surface thing, but eventually it will sink through all the way in. So even if you start out just by acting that way, and you may need at times to lean on somebody, and to acknowledge that you are unhappy, but then it can bring forth a positive approach again.

Gina: Pick yourself up again.

Verna: Do not reject any help that is being offered to you, at times you may need it. This is a complicated thing but, there are so many ifs and buts in life.

Sometimes, opening up and letting someone else know that you are unhappy about something can be beneficial, both to you and the other person. It enables the other person to express love back to you. But when it gets to the point where that is what you are doing all the time, and you are completely draining other people, that is when it gets negative all round, and you then start to sink. But do not think that you have to be utterly strong and brave and independent all the time.

Gina: Someone gives you a hand to help pick you up, accept the help to pick you up but don't rely on it all the time. You can do it under your own steam.

Guy: There is a problem person, the medium knows who she is, we have been discussing her. What would you think, is the best way to handle her sort of problem?

Verna: She is a very difficult case. Because, as this medium has said, the more attention you give her because of this negative approach she has, the more she is likely to keep on with it.

Gina: Read her the riot act?

Verna: I don't know if that would help this particular person. She has a very low self-image, she is very depressed and she has been like this since childhood. And if you look at your society, if somebody is down, if somebody - do you remember a incident when this medium said that she is not artistic? She hasn't any artistic ability. And you and your friend immediately started saying "Oh, yes, you are." That's how it is in your society - you immediately rush to reassure and make the person feel good again. But this can get to the point where someone may, not consciously, but they find people saying nice things to them every time that they are depressed or are putting themselves down.


Gina: They think, they are only saying that to cheer me up, they don't really mean it?

Verna: And one way of getting these compliments is to carry on putting yourself down. When this is started in early childhood, it gets very ingrained.

Guy: Well, what do you recommend for her then?

Verna: We think if we can get her into the organisation that has been suggested, that may help. It has the potential to help because, as the medium has said, in that organisation you receive your 'strokes', but you are also forced to give them back to other people. This is something this lass needs to learn. She is very wrapped up in herself, she really needs something to make her aware of the difficulties that other people have. She is not the only one in that state. There are others who are worse. The trouble is that she is draining everyone around her.

Gina: How about assertiveness training? Such courses at university have been very successful in raising girls' self-esteem.


Verna: We do feel that some sort of group work would benefit her. The assertiveness type of thing is one aspect and would probably, could be, a first step. But the group which has been suggested, if she would go to it, would also help. It is more spiritually based than the ordinary psychological group. Possibly a mixture of both giving a balance. She does need too, some social skills training, helping her to conduct a conversation type thing, if we can find groups in your city operating like that, I am not too sure about the straight encounter groups.


Therese: What about Sage?

Verna: We are not too certain about which approach Sage takes.


Therese: It's a mixture.

Verna: You still need to avoid the situation where she will become the centre of attention if she is depressed and miserable and starts crying. The problem with groups is that you can get good ones and ones that are not so good.

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