12th November, 1987.

It is most pleasant to be here with you again and have the honour of talking with you. It is a long time since we had a serious talk with you and I feel that it is time we went into some detail about contacting the spirit side while you are in a material body. I shall give a brief talk which I hope will inspire you with some questions because we really like to work with you in an interaction. And we feel that if we give the outline, then by your questions you indicate to us what are your particular interests.

Now, the biggest obstacle to your contacting us on this side is, of course, your material body. It is very dense and it is very heavy and you are very used to it. You have your five senses which lead you out into the world and give you information about the world and because you must keep that body alive you concentrate on the world.Consequently all these impressions about the world often drown out the impressions coming from spirit, which are always very tenuous and slight. When you have the light impinging on your eyes and the nerve impulses going to the brain, and you have the sounds coming into your ears and the impulses also impinging on your brain and then you have the feeling of your clothes and your chair and the weight of the air doing the same thing, it is sometimes awfully difficult for the spiritual side to make itself heard. And even if it does, very often you will not take any notice anyway.

So, when you become aware that there is another side to life and that there are souls here who are willing and able to communicate with you, what do you do? Well, being in the material world you will often start thinking that you need help from something else. So you start reading and then you come across books that say "Ah, now, you have to breathe like this." and you will go away and you will have a little puff. Now, this can affect the level of oxygen in your brain and you can have certain experiences. That is well. Another book may say, "Well, you have got to fast." So you will go without food and, of course, this can lead to certain experiences because the chemicals in the brain are affected. Then other people may say you have to sit in certain positions, you have got to do certain exercises. These practices also affect oxygen levels in the body. They do lead to squeezing of the muscles so that certain toxins are released and dispersed, and can lead to a state of relaxation in which the spiritual side can make itself heard.

All these sorts of things can help. There are others that go in for spinning around. Fortunately there are not too many in your society. Same thing, certain physical effects are made to your body. now, there are even more drastic ones, one can have an electric shock. A bit drastic and a bit dangerous - I do not recommend you do it deliberately. This again affects the brain and can lead to an opening up. Now, it has to be just the right sort of thing, for goodness sake don't go around shoving hairpins in your electric power points or something. It has to be the correct amount, the correct way and all sorts of things but I am not going into details, so don't ask me - much too tricky.

Now, you can try all these things, the one I have mentioned - with the exception of the electric shock - are reasonably safe. You will achieve some degree of contact, there are others which are dangerous, I am of course referring to certain types of drugs. They can lead to a certain type of contact, but it is more risky because of their effects on the body because you will often need increasing amounts and, in some cases, after the first time they are ineffective. These can effect permanent changes in your brain which can eventually lead to completely blocking the contact. This is why in some cases where the contact with the spirit world has become excessive to the point where it is seriously interfering with the material life - in fact where it is leading to cases of what you call "possession" where the person completely loses control of their material life, certain drugs prescribed, block the contact, enabling the person to achieve some measure of control again. Sometimes it is quite effective and sometimes it is not, but that is another matter.

The major point of contact between the Spiritual World, or perhaps I should say, souls in the Spiritual World and souls still incarnate is through the brain and through the spine. That is the major point of contact. Spiritual energy can enter through the head, through the top usually and down the spine, and then can go out into the body, if you wish to use it in that way. As it comes into the head messages like this one can be impinged onto your brain cells and if you are receptive you will be able to hear it.

As we like to stress to you, it is your decision whether to take this advice or not. You are not a puppet on a string. We only give you advice - it is up to you. Another important area is the centre of the forehead. Now, this is a good point for you to direct your messages outwards from your forehead if you are wishing to send thoughts to someone or absent healing or even contact healing, you can sent it more easily that way. Please understand noting that we ever say is absolutely IT - but often there are other ways of doing things. We merely give you the usual way. We like to stress this because we do not wish you to become so bound it has to be this - you may shut off what, for you, is a very good contact, even if it is an atypical contact, or way of contact, I should say.

It is, when a medium, a control medium, starts to work, often easier for controls to come in from the back, over the spine. That way they get a better control over the body. Sometimes contact can also be made front ways, but in the majority of cases it will come through the back. now, naturally, your receptivity and your willingness also contributes greatly to the contact and the quality of what we can bring through to you.

I mention quite briefly, ways which are often taught for increasing this contact. I would call them the beginning steps, they are useful at first, they also give you a sense of security and that is very important when you are first starting. What concerns us is that you may stay with them - you may feel this has GOT to be done. Now, if you are inclined to these methods by all means try them, they will give you some help but also understand that they are not essential.The one thing that is essential is that you be able to relax, that is the essential part. And this is why these other things help, because you feel you have done the right thing, and then your spirit helpers can contact you more easily. It is also very helpful and this is what we prefer, this is what we would like to lead into: a period set aside each day where you relax and make yourselves available.Now put a golden light around you and specify that only well-intention spirits are to come in to you. Welcome your guides and healers and make sure they understand that only spirits who are coming with something beneficial and helpful to you are to be allowed in. This period does not need to be very long, fifteen minutes a day is quite sufficient. Now, try to carry with you into your daily life that feeling of relaxation, of awareness. But we always wish to repeat that during your day life you are the one who is in control and you must make sure that your guides and helpers understand this. Because when they finally make contact with you, they are going to get very excited, they have so much to bring through to you, and at first they can get a little bit carried away. You must not let this happen - you must make it clear that there are times when you are willing to be in contact with them. But by carrying with you this feeling of awareness you are not completely blocking them off, because they can give you a little bit of useful information. What I am talking about is that you do not let them take control of you at any inappropriate times. You have to work in this material world, you have certain duties to do and you must carry them out properly. When, if, it is for you to work, shall we say, professionally in this philosophy, situations will arise and your life will somehow, quite without your understanding how it happened, be arranged so that can come about.

All right, now, I said to you for you to have this period each day of quiet relaxation. We suggest that you spend a few moments consciously relaxing your muscles. In time you should be able to do this immediately you sit down. It is a matter of practice making perfect. This I intend to be your daily practice but actual control should be done only in a group setting. In a group you have more energy available, you have different types of vibrations, they will mix and so you will get a much better vibration than if you are by yourself. It is like light, you could take pure light and you can split it up into the colours of the spectrum so that white light contains all the colours. If one colour were missing it would not be pure white light. So when you are in a circle you have a mix of vibrations and it is a different type of vibration much more likely to enable your spirit guides to make contact with you, because there are the different vibrations around for them to use. There are also people around to you. Very often the first spirit to come through will be a distressed spirit and if you are with people they will be able to talk to that spirit and to help it to move on. This isn't always so, we prefer it not to be, but very often it is something about the person's aura in that first stage and with an outside spirit coming through the person's guides are able to be there to watch what is happening, how the person's aura is affected and this sort of thing. This makes it easier for them again to work with the person. It is usually someone who is not very greatly distressed who will do that. It will be someone who is anxious to make contact with the material plane again, and naturally your guides and helpers will be there in force to make sure that everything will be all right.

In other cases it will be one of the guides to come the first time. It is all very various for different reasons for all things. Also when you are in a group setting you are much more likely to feel safe; you have less anxiety in you and this is conducive to contact with spirit. There are also different degrees of control ranging from that little whisper to the full trance control. That is more rare and many groups of guides prefer not to work with a full-trance medium. They like to have their medium with at least some degree of self-consciousness so that the person can exert themselves and take action if there is any sort of emergency around them.

In the past, trance was much more common than it is now, there were problems and difficulties and accidents, so many of us now prefer to work with conscious mediums and what a lot of people do not realise is eventually you can have this contact without going into any sort of trance, and that is quite rare too. In fact this stage is a quite recent phenomena which we are achieving with a few people. In this case the contact is always there, the person can refer to it when needed - can sort of bring things up from the subconscious, might be the way many people want to describe it. It, too, works very well with somebody who is able while still conscious to put their conscious mind to one side. it is an awfully difficult thing to describe to you. One of the best examples we can think of is the musician. It is the sort of thing where the musician is playing, he has rehearsed what he is doing to the point where he no longer has to think what he is doing with his fingers, it just comes through, and it is something like that. It is an analogy you understand. This sort of thing will become much more common in the future as these different types of souls start coming through and becoming more frequent.

Now, coming back to our relaxation - I often get distracted on things. While you are practising your relaxing deep breathing will help towards this, but don't do it all the time, it should be just two or three breaths to help you relax. But then think about your spine and you will probably find that it will become sensitive. But don't worry about this chakra and things. That sort of teaching has become rather exaggerated; for spiritual things you only need the spine, it is sensitive, it carries all the nerves to the body. So relax, think of yourselves as sinking into the spine - I think that is the best way I can describe it. You may be able to find different ways of conceiving it which may work better for you. Remember that the brain is at the top, the crown, the point from the spine where spiritual energy can be directed outwards, most commonly through the hands for healing and in activities such as psychometry where you are trying to get the vibrations from the object.

It grieves us at times that we still have to try to give this proof to people. The people still wish to be told what is going to happen, still wish to be told what do to, and so forth. it is our hope that in time you will move away from these practices, we do understand that at times it is really needed but we worry that people focus on it too much. Go within and get your own messages, have faith in yourself and in the Godness that all will be well. You will cease to need to be told what is going to happen. You will cease to need this reassurance. Trust what is within you and remember you, each one of you, is a drop of the Godness and you have that direct link. This is the pinnacle of your spiritual aim.

You don't need to put any effort into it, you don't need to focus completely on all these other material things, use them as your first steps if you wish to go beyond, even go beyond your own guides and helpers to the Godness itself. Because deep within you that is what you are and you have that direct link and you need nothing else and in time not even what I have been recommending to you will be necessary. use my suggestions perhaps as your second stage. I am going to repeat - within you is a drop of the Godness - you have that direct link. Nothing else is essential. Remember that. Repeat it to yourself every day.

Now, you can ask me your questions. I do not guarantee that I will answer them but you may ask.

Dorothy: What should our reaction be if somebody does manage to contact us when we are in a time of peace and we are by ourselves?

Verna: Now, the contact that is OK. It is the actual control. Now, explain the situation, explain and tell them they are welcome, you are pleased. Give them a set time, say five minutes, and enjoy that five minutes and then assert yourself. Now, if you feel they are trying to actually take control at an inappropriate time, move around, move your arms, your legs, have something to eat or drink, be in contact with other people. Now, another thing which may help is to try writing. It has been found in the past that the spirit can give information through the writing. It is a form of control that is only in the hand and so the rest of the body is not affected. Now there are people who do the automatic writing and the whole of their body is taken over. But that is very advanced people, people who are very experienced. It is usually just in the ands and if they can give their message that way that will often satisfy them and then you can assert yourself. Sometimes you see, especially with those of us who have been over here fore quite a while, those of us who have lived in some different types of societies to you, we forget that there are different rules to be obeyed in your society and so we may be wanting you to obey the rules that existed in our society. As I said before we, too, can get excited and forget ourselves a little bit. But is always your life and you live it. With help from use, sure, we don't want namby-pamby, wishy-washy people. You need to have a bit of strength when you come over here if you are to do some useful work.

Margaret: I have been trying more or less the way you have suggested for some time. I have some feelings but I get nothing.

Verna: Are not feelings good enough for you?

Margaret: Well, yes and no.

Verna: This medium sees and hears nothing. What you like to have?

Margaret: A little more directness, a contact with my guides.

Verna: You lack faith?

Margaret: I don't think so.

Verna: You talk with this medium afterwards, she will tell you. She has the same problem, but she just has to put up with it. That is the way your guides are contacting you at the moment. The more you insist on having something else the less likelihood of it happening.

Margaret: Thank you.

Janet: How do you explain the different sensations people have while that are meditating - like swelling and hot spots -

Verna: It is just their particular sensitivity at that moment. It is just the way their guides or helpers find it easiest to impinge their presence on the person.

Janet: It doesn't signify anything in particular?

Verna: No. It is just the form of contact. You see, your aura has to be at least in a similar state of vibration to the aura of your guides, so that they can mesh. And sometimes it just so happens that they can mesh more easily with one part of your aura than with another. Contact at first is usually just partial contact.

Janet: And sometimes when I meditate I feel I am being pulled over at my right side and tonight when I meditated I felt my nasal passages in my nose were under pressure and when I get that sense of pulling I feel like I am going to fall over while I am meditating. And my whole body, my head, tends to turn around while I am meditating as if I am drifting - the I am conscious of turning my head and body around. That can be a distraction while I am meditating.

Verna: You have a strong guide who likes to be on your right hand side. He likes to think of himself as your right hand man. You see?

Janet: It has nothing to do then with the right side of the brain or the body being the intuitive side?

Verna: No, don't get tied up with these things about the body. It will tie you into the body. Keep aiming for spirit. Anything else?

Stina: Your guidance up to now has been extremely valuable.

Guy: It might be useful to other people. There are various techniques of putting oneself in self-hypnosis i.e., putting oneself in trance. There are several methods to do that and one can, with a reasonable amount of practice, succeed in putting oneself in a full or light trance. Could this be a useful preliminary step to mediumship?

Verna: It too can be used as a preliminary step. It can make contact easier but the person in this state has less control over the situation. They are much more open to undue influences. As long as there is a time limit set to it you can use it first and naturally this sort of technique is beneficial in certain physical conditions. So one does not have to go to great lengths to avoid it, but it does make one more susceptible to us - but there is that warning that you are in less control and we feel it should only be used as the very preliminary state.

Guy: I could be very wrong in this but I think that is how this medium started.

Verna: She did have this ability of a self-hypnotic state - it does not occur theses days.

Guy: No, I know that. But in the very early days that's how it started, I think.

Verna: There was an element of that. She had this ability - er - she probably told you herself. She would lay down and go "out" for exactly half an hour - a sort of conscious sleeping state - and wake in exactly half an hour and you would probably have heard her talk about it. This was a preliminary stepping stone, she does not do it now. So it has some element of help. But you can go beyond it.

Guy: That was what I wanted to bring out. Some people start that way I think, it was the way this medium started. it can work out very well although there is an element of risk there.

Dorothy: Referring to hypnosis, is it necessary for a person if they are able to have regressions? Because often I have thought hypnosis was why it was used, for that.

Verna: The problem with these regressions is that very often it is simply and overshadowing spirit who is able to impress their own life memories on the person who is being hypnotised. Remember, that not everyone has had a previous life and remember too, which we must keep impressing on you, you do not HAVE to reincarnate. It is your decision and if you die with this idea that you have got to be reincarnated into this material world and ought to be punished for what you have done you will reincarnate and you will punish yourself. But you don't have to. We do not like the great concentration on these previous lives. if there is a serious knot somewhere and you really cannot find the source of the problem in this life then try the regression. There might be a previous life difficulty, but don't do it just to find out what you were.

Dorothy: No. I was just curious about it.

Verna: Another thing too, is that when you are in this hypnotic state is that your imagination can be very creative. And if you by any chance have a secret thought of "Wouldn't it be nice if I had been that famous person in Greece", or wherever, your imagination may run away with you.

Dorothy: In other words, we may imagine then ... huh

Verna: It can happen. I am not saying that it always does but there is always this possibility. We feel it is much better to concentrate on this life and to keep aiming up there to Spirit instead of what is down here. Let it go, don't hang on to it. There has only been one Mary, Queen of Scotland.

Janet: That then says that what life is about is development and not punishment. And if one does not have to reincarnate to develop they can also develop on the spiritual side.

Verna: Yes.

Janet: Are there differences in experiences between the material and the spiritual world, why would a soul then choose to reincarnate into the material world if they can learn - if they can gain their lessons in the spiritual world?

Verna: Partly this is an illusion which is gaining much more currency in your world - that you have to reincarnate - that is one of them.

Janet: So the soul carries it over with it.

Verna: Yes. That is one of them. Sometimes people are just caught up in the material conditions, they want to have done something, they want to have been famous, they want to have been the best of painters or something like that. And they are so caught up with this desire that they will block out what has been shown in the spirit world that they can do that here if they absolutely want it and they force themselves back into material conditions.

Janet: But there are also very developed souls who prefer to come to the material world instead of staying in spirit isn't there?

Verna: Well, there are those advanced souls who choose to come back to the material world in an effort to, shall we say, let us use the phrase you are all thinking about, to bring enlightenment. These are people like Jesus, Krishna and all the other avatars, St. Francis and people like that. They come with the sole intent of helping the people caught up in this material world to let it go. They try to turn people's attention upwards and away from the material conditions. There are a few of them in the world at any one time.

Dorothy: When there is not such a difference between the material world and the spiritual world why wasn't it done in the beginning of time that there is just a spiritual world and no physical bodies?

Verna: The difference between the spiritual and the material world is very slight, and we keep talking about the material world and the material plane in order to get our concepts across to you, but you ARE already in the spiritual world. The material world does not exist as you see it, and it is really only another part of the spirit world.

Dorothy: Only more dense?

Verna: What is dense? There is more space in matter than there is matter. And when you look at the matter, it is not matter anyway, it is energy.

Isia: If spirits don't have to reincarnate as a form of retribution how can souls such as Hitler, who have committed crimes again humanity, how can they retribute without having to reincarnate? What can they do?

Verna: Now, this circle was a part of the process in releasing that gentleman, so we will talk specifically about him, but it applies to many other people. when such people undergo their life review they are often so horrified at what they have done that they can become frozen. Have you ever had that experience, of sort of being horrified at something and going rigid?

Dorothy: We have the phrase "frozen with fear".

Verna: Right. They react like that but they stay like it, until, in some way, they can be released from it. Now, this circle joined with other movements around the world, this is going to sound strange to you, I expect, but in sending love to that gentleman - it was a very long time since he had experienced love, genuine love - and finally he understood love. And with that he was released from that rigidity, and he was then able to go to the souls of the people who he had harmed to release them. You see, many of those holocaust victims were so filled with fear or with hatred of him they, too, were locked in.

Janet: He must still be doing it.

Verna: And so our friend was helping to release them. And yes, he is still at it. He was a person of tremendous will and he is now channelling that will in a productive, spiritual, loving manner in the direction in which he should have used it while he was on this earth.

Dorothy: We here are trying to understand it but I am not quite sure if there are many people in the world still alive from the holocaust that would find it very, very hard to come to terms with a thing like that.

Verna: That is very true. And it is a sign of true spiritual greatness when you can do this. It IS very difficult. And such people have attracted helpers to them who are trying to help them over it.

Dorothy: When a person like Hitler, like that, the helpers that he gets, would they be extremely strong people because of the intensity of this fear and the way he locked himself up?

Verna: They were no stronger than the ones with anyone else. It was his own driving force and you understand, of course, that particularly towards the end he was a very sick man, who was not thinking correctly. And because of this he was able to attract the mischievous spirits, those who had not yet let go of the material conditions and who were using him as their tool to do what they wanted. And he, because of his mental condition, he was over-ruling his own guides, you see, and so attracting these others.

Guy: Going back to reincarnation, in the time of Hitler, in Indian thought the whole key to the reincarnation is the argument that the spirit body or the astral body does not have the means of material action and therefore when we do things on the material level in the material way they cannot be re-balanced or re-acquitted in the spiritual world because the spirit body cannot act in a material way. Therefore, by logic, the soul has to reincarnate. Can you comment on that belief? Because that is the key to why the Indians believe that you must reincarnate. The inability of the spirit body to re-balance material actions.

Verna: Now, the material body is but a vehicle for the spiritual. The spiritual operates the material body. The material body is like a car - you will not blame a car being used as a means of transport for, say, your narcotic drugs being distributed. It is the intent and the intent of the mind, and it is the mind thinking that goes to the spirit world.

Guy: I accept that.

Verna: That is where all the intent lies.

Guy: I accept that, I just wanted you to make it clear because that is why the Indians believe you must reincarnate - what is done materially must be re-done materially. That is their logic behind it.

Verna: I think I will then, take my leave and do remember that if you have any further questions you may ask this medium during supper and we will attempt to impress her with the answer. We can often, shall we say, dictate an answer to her, especially after your circle. So I will say Good Night, and thank you.

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