9.5.85

The entity had been through for a few minutes and was showing some signs of distress. In response to suggestions to relax and breathe deeply 
and slowly, she finally said:
  

Entity: Why don't they leave alone ? I've told you everything.

Gina:   There's no-one torturing you now. There's no-one here who is going to hurt you.

Garry:  You've left the area you were in. We are not the same people.

Guy:    You are just re-living your memories. It is all past.

Entity: No. I - I won't go through it.

Gina:   You don't have to. Those bastards are gone. We're here to try and help you.

Garry:  How long were you there? Do you know? Do you remember?

Entity: (Staccato like) No. No. No. I won't remember. I won't. Won't.

Gina:   Don't remember that then. Forget all about it. Take a look at where you are now. Open your eyes and take a look around.

Guy:    Nothing can hurt you any more. Absolutely nothing can hurt you any more.

Gina:   Open your eyes and take a look around.

Sylvia: We extend our love to you because we want to help you.

Entity: That's what they all say, and then they want me to remember. I won't do it.

Guy:    We don't ask you to remember. All we are saying is, open your eyes and look around, just to see where you are. Because no-one's 
        going to hurt you any more. Open your eyes and see that you're not in a place where people can hurt you.

Entity: They keep wanting me to remember and I won't remember. I won't.

Gina:   You won. You beat those bastards. You won. You came out on top against them. You came out much better than them. You won.

Entity: They want me to remember and I won't. I won't.

Gina:   You won. You don't have to try any more. The race has been won. (She was speaking slowly and quietly, trying to reassure the entity.)
        The entity had spent much of this dialogue with my hands over my face, and often shaking my head, especially when she repeated " I won't" .

Entity: I - I - hold on to the fields. I won't remember.

Guy:    It's OK. with us. We are happy to have you exactly as you are. We don't want you to remember anything.

Entity: They keep saying I've got to remember and I won't.

Guy:    It must be something very hurtful.

Entity: I can just stay? In the fields?
General agreement.

Garry:  Just live for now.

Entity: That's all I want. I just want to stay. But they keep saying I've got to remember.

Gina:   No. No. You don't have to remember anything. You've got your fields and you can stay in your fields. That's guaranteed. You've got 
        your fields, all you've got to do is sit back and enjoy them.

Entity: But they won't let me.

Gina:   They will let you, because they aren't here any more.

Entity: They say I've got to go over it, and I can't.

Guy:    You can do whatever you want to do. You are completely free. We are not forcing you to remember or not to remember. Do you know where 
        you are now? Are you aware that you are in another person's body?

Entity: Yes.

Guy:    You know you are dead?

Entity: Yes.

Guy:    Obviously you were brought here for some reason, by people who wish you well, they don't want to force you to do anything.

Entity: But they want me to go through it and I can't.

Guy:    Who wants you to go through it?

Entity: People. I only want to stay in the fields. But they keep saying there's some more. I just won't remember.

Guy:    How long have you been in the fields?

Entity: I don't know. It is just so peaceful.

Guy:    Is it beautiful in the fields? Is it nice there?

Entity: (Nodding) Yes, the sun's shining, and the flowers, and birds and ...

Guy:    Are there people around you?

Entity: Yes.

Guy:    Do you talk to them?

Entity: Yes..

Guy:    Are they nice to you?

Entity: They keep saying there's more for me, but I've got to go through it first and I won't. I won't. I won't remember.

Guy:    You will not remember? Or you can't?

Entity: I won't.

Guy:    You won't. It's too painful?

Entity: They want me to go on somewhere else, but I don't want to leave the fields. It's so peaceful.

Gina:   How about if they took you somewhere nicer? Even prettier. Even more peaceful. And even more enjoyable. How about if they took you 
        there?

Entity: But they said I've got to go through it again first, and I don't want to remember.

Gina:   (Softly) What do you have to go through again?

Entity: (After a pause.) My life.

Guy:    Is it painful? Have you maybe done something which you think is bad?

Entity: No. I don't think I've done evil.

Guy:    Because the trouble may be that it's all forgiven. Everything's forgiven. Nobody could hold anything against you. Maybe it's yourself 
        you have to forgive. You're holding something against yourself.

Gina:   The only person who judges you is you.

Entity: (Almost in tears.) I'm sure I didn't do anything wrong.

Gina:   If you've done nothing wrong and there's nothing you dislike about your life, why not?

Entity: I won't remember it. (Starting to sob.)

Gina:   (Very gently.) Hey, hey, come on.

Entity: I've done nothing wrong.

Gina:   If you've done nothing wrong then there's nothing to worry about.

Gina:   What did you think?

Entity: I thought no harm would come if I did nothing wrong and I'm sure I did nothing wrong and I don't understand. I don't want to 
        remember. (She was getting slightly worked up at this point.)

Guy:    You are afraid to remember? It's but a shadow in a dream. You are fearful of it. You are free - completely free. Forgive yourself and 
        nobody else will hold it against you.

Entity: (Sobbing a little.) I've done nothing wrong.

Gina:   The problem with you is that you've got a block. You're sure you've done nothing wrong, but you don't want to remember it. So why 
        don't you just ... (the entity started to sob) ... Hey

Entity: I don't want to remember.

Gina:   Forgive yourself.

Entity: There's nothing to forgive. I'm sure I did nothing wrong.

Gina:   You're not Jesus. You're only human.

Entity: You want to make me remember.

Gina:   All people make mistakes. The best and most kindest generous people in the world still make mistakes, because while they are on 
        earth they have lessons to learn. And the only way you can learn a lesson is by making a mistake first...

Entity: But I was only ten.

Garry:  Who was only ten?

Entity: I was.

Guy:    Every child makes mistakes.

Entity: I didn't do anything wrong.

Gina:   You want to bet? You can be very human.

Entity: You don't understand.

Gina:   Why don't you try and explain it to us?

Entity: (Crying aloud.) I don't want to remember.

Gina:   We're a very understanding bunch but we can't help you until we know what's wrong.

Guy:    You are obviously upset. What's upsetting you?

Entity: I don't want to remember.

Jenny:  Where are you now, dear? (Entity starts sobbing.) Is there no way we can help you?

Entity: They said I should talk to you but when I talk to you I remember and I don't want to.

Gina:   Others make mistakes. Is it something which upset you a lot? Did someone die?

Entity: Thousands. They all died.

Guy:    They all died. And you think that's because of something you did when you were ten years old?

Entity: I don't understand. I don't understand why they did it. I don't think I did anything.

Guy:    It was probably a little childish mistake which was unfortunate.

Entity: (Almost hysterical.) No. They don't take you away for that.

Gina:   Nobody holds you responsible for what you did at ten years of age.

Entity: But I didn't do anything. You don't understand.

Gina:   Hey, calm down. Don't get upset. Calm down. Ten year old kids even if they haven't done anything wrong, it could be how someone else 
        interpreted it. It might have been a hard thing to do with what you did or said, but it could have been ...

Entity: Why did they do it?

Gina:   Adults can be horrible at times, and you can't be held responsible for what other adults did.

Entity: I won't remember. Stop it. I won't remember.

Garry:  The trouble is, you do remember all the time, isn't it? You go over and over, trying to find out why, and you remember all the time.

Entity: I don't try to. It is evil.

Garry:  Yes, but you remember it all the time trying to figure it out... You've got to be able to release it. And that's what the people 
        who are trying to help you go over it, so that you can get rid of it out of your mind. We might be able to help you get over it.
        It might be a big mistake, the people who did it to you could have been enormously wrong. And we might know where they've gone wrong.

Entity: Why did they do it?

Garry:  They are human too, they can make a mistake.

Entity: There were so many of them.

Marsha: Where were they?

Entity: They took us away.

Garry:  So there wasn't just you there? Your mother and sisters and friends?

Gina:   Are you Jewish?
        (The entity did not answer but the way she 'froze' indicated that she was.)

Garry:  They had reasons to do it and they were reasons that may not have been correct.

Gina:   Was it the Nazis who took you away? Who took everyone away?

Entity: (after a pause) You said I didn't have to remember.

Gina:   That war was forty years ago. The Germans lost the war, by the way. The Americans and the British won. Adolf Hitler is dead. The 
        Americans and the Canadians and the British, the Australians and a whole lot of other countries banded together and creamed Germany.
        They beat the socks off them. And the Germans have been spending forty years trying to repay that.

Garry:  You'll be all right.

Gina:   The Nazis were the bad guys of the twentieth century.

Garry:  You don't really have to remember, but you do remember don't you? All the time.

Sylvia: And all those people involved in that tragedy then, have all been released from their pain and misery and have gone on.

Gina:   They have gone on to nicer things. What everyone's trying to do is help you so that you can have lots of nicer things, because what you 
        are trying not to remember is what's blocking you from going on to nicer things.

Guy:    It seems that you have done nothing wrong. But you did have a horrible experience which was not any of your fault, but you attracted 
        that horrible experience which is why people are telling you that to be released from it, you have to face it, and be free. You just 
        have to break out of that horrible memory. You have done nothing wrong.

Gina:   The experience was horrible, and horrible people, and lots of people were victims. You were a victim - that's all. Lots and lots of 
        people were in the same situation as you and what they have to do is to realise the situation in its entirety, before they could go on 
        to nicer things after they died.

Guy:    If you just see it for what it was. It wasn't your fault. Things happened that way. But you have to be released like a bird from a 
        cage so you can fly and live free.

Gina:   It's great flying. It's really fantastic.

Guy:    You have that horrible memory that's been haunting you all these years. You have had to suppress it because it was so bad. But you 
        also want to be free of it don't you? There are people who have brought you here who understand all that, and want to set you free. 
        Perhaps you could look round you and see who might be here; who brought you here. We all wish you well.

Gina:   Think of your mum.

Guy:    Think of the nice things in your life. You can remember nice things can't you? Who was it brought you up, who you loved? You could 
        remember that surely? No hurt in that.

Sylvia: You are surrounded by love now. Just let the memories go, they are in your past. All the people who love you now are waiting for you. 
        We love you, we want to help you.

Gina:   Follow them, because they are fine now.

Sylvia: They are waiting for you.

Gina:   Your mum and your dad, your brothers and sisters.

Sylvia: They all came through the green fields too. And they are all waiting for you. If you relax, their love will come around you.

Gina:   Can you see anyone?
(Long pause.)

Guy:    Can you see us?
(Another long pause.)

Therese: You feel so much better now, don't you? You feel the love around.

Gina:    they are waiting to give you a great big hug and kisses. All you've got to do is take them by the hand and go with them.

Therese: Let go all the fears. There's only love. Can you see the light?

Entity:  (speaking very slowly and with some difficulty) I would like to thank you - for making a safe place to remember.

Gina:    Our pleasure.

Therese: We are all your friends.

Sylvia:  Perhaps you can come and visit us again. We would like you to come through and tell us of your journeys.

Entity:  Thank you, I would like that.

Guy:     Is somebody greeting you now? Is somebody nice leading you now? They will show you an even nicer field.

During the above dialogue the entity had remained silent, but she was at last going through the last few violent years of her life. She saw 
the barracks and the sterile rooms where she had been interrogated in the hope of gaining incriminating information from her. She at last 
acknowledged what had happened to her and accepted it. During this process she was aware of a great comforting love around her. It was 
almost solid, and she was now able to let the scenes of her life pass before her.

After a short break Verna came through:
We thought that for the furtherance of human understanding, I should come through and tell you about that young girl. She was one of the 
victims of the holocaust. She was in a concentration camp for four years before she died. Her problem was that when she came over here - 
as you know we usually put some surroundings of peace and quietness for people who have died in traumatic circumstances - she would not leave 
those temporary surroundings. She just blotted out her life, and, as you know, it is necessary to review your life before you start on your 
progress. But she just refused to go through her life. The last few years were so full of horror that she just would not do it.
This being the anniversary of the end of that war, we got the vibrations of those times, and we were able to bring her along using 
those vibrations. She needed a very safe feeling place before she could go through her memories; and you people here provided her with 
that. She particularly drew strength from the male friends tonight, Garry and Guy, and we particularly thank you for your perceptiveness.
As you were talking, there was building up around her this very firm wall of love. And with that, at the end, she finally had the strength 
to see the scenes of those last few years. She is now responding to the advances made by her mother in particular, and other members of her 
family. She can at last hear and see them, whereas before she was just holding on to those fields, and the birds and the flowers and the 
butterflies that we had provided her with at first. There are still many people who died in the holocaust who are not in the, not really 
the conditions in which they died, but their feelings are of those conditions: their anger, their hate, their terror, their bewilderment. 
We have tonight freed one of those people and we think she will work amongst others in that state.
We have told you before that people who have had a certain difficulty or disability are particularly useful in helping other people with the 
same disability or difficulty. And she will shortly, we think, take on that work. We have in the past asked you to work on the initiator of 
those dreadful days, and we are pleased to tell you that he is starting work on his immediate helpers, you may say his henchmen. He is working 
on them, trying to get them to release. Naturally, they are a bit bewildered by their leader's actions.
is there anything you wish to ask about to-night?

Gina:  I thought it was Anna Frank and you were going to tell us about here.

Verna: She hasn't given us a name yet. Perhaps tonight we can ask you to concentrate on the victims. Mentally try to talk to them. 
       particularly about forgiveness. Could we ask you to sit for a few moments and concentrate on them?

(After a pause Verna started to say the following prayer.)

Be at peace,
Be at love,
Forgive.
Let the evil slip away. Do not hold it.
Do not increase it. Do not repeat it.
We cannot give you back what was taken from you, but we can show you 
other experiences which are every bit as valid as that you lost.
Grieve not for material things.
Look, and accept the things of spirit, and grow with them.
They are more lasting than anything you have lost.


Gina:   It is interesting to see life that lies in the future. Especially for people who die and have learnt their lessons. It's 
        exciting and it's wonderful, and fantastic. Once they have learnt their lessons they can shake off the fear of that, and go on to their 
        biggest adventure.

Verna:  That's a very good approach.

Guy:    I had a strange mental picture. I had like a number of caged birds, getting out and just flying upwards. Dozens of them.

Verna:  That is also very good visualisation. I think many of them would have responded.

Sylvia: In cases like we have just had tonight, how can we best help the people on your side to go further afield on your side? Do they 
        look for their loved ones? Do they look for light? What is the best terminology, because we have our reality here and we want to help,
        like just now, the young girl on your side, what can we tell her to help her onward? Look for the light, look for her loved ones? 
        What can she see?

Verna:  I think the best thing to do is to try any, and everything, that you can think of, because what works with one person may not work with 
        another. So, use as many varied terms as you can, until you see one that clicks with the spirit.

Sylvia: Obviously the empathy and love.

Verna:  Yes, tonight particularly, that feeling of love around her, and bringing her back into physical surroundings, particularly these here. 
        The fire, too helped. She was given strength then to do what she had been too afraid to do. It really was the love and concern from 
        all of you. It was almost a physical thing, like cotton round her and eventually she got the courage to go through those last scenes.
        And she gained acceptance of what had happened.

Guy:    You know I am a sceptic. May I ask you a sceptical question? We have been told, time and time again, that there are no rules in the 
        Spirit World. Why is there then a rule that one must remember these horrors before one is able to go on? It wasn't her fault, why 
        was she forced to re-live it?

Verna:  Because she hadn't accepted it. She hadn't forgiven it.

Guy:    Learned her lessons?

Verna:  She - er - you review your life at some point, and until then you can't really go on with your progress. It acts as a barrier and a 
        drawback until you get rid of those things of your life.

Guy:    It's not a rule, but a necessity?

Verna:  Yes.

Gina:   Learn the lessons of forgiveness? Is that it?

Verna:  Yes, learn to forgive, yes.

Therese: And to accept, and to confront the situations.

Verna:   As soon as you can get all that, your life can slip away from you and you don't need to reincarnate, or anything like that.

Guy:     Was she actually completing an act of forgiving or just remembering?

Verna:   She had to remember before she could forgive.

Guy:     She actually did forgive?

Verna:   Yes. She went through those scenes and she accepted what has happened. She then began to follow the things you people had been 
         saying to her, and she was then able to act on them and she can now go beyond those temporary surroundings that we had given. She was 
         holding on to them, building them up around herself, long past the time when we were dissolving them, she was holding them there.

Sylvia:  Is it the emotional state that holds us on to.

Verna:   Yes. When you come on this side, it is all the psychological and emotional feelings which you have. These largely determine your 
         surroundings.

Gina:    What you have given her was a temporary way-station, the biggest pleasure she had had in her life?

Verna:   When somebody dies, very traumatically or suddenly, we give them those temporary surroundings as a sort of rest, before they go on to 
         others. We make the surroundings appropriate to the person.

Jenny:   How old was she when she died?

Verna:   She would have been about thirteen.

Garry:   Was the concentration camp in Germany? I was under the impression that she was cold.

Verna:   Yes.

Garry:   I was wondering if she was cold at the time in Germany.

Verna:   Yes, I think that was German one.

Sylvia:  Is it possible for her to come back and visit the circle again when she is stronger?

Verna:   Yes, we will see what we can do. She will probably respond to your concern. We thought it was very touching that at the end she was 
         able to thank you herself.

Gina:    Show how well she was brought up.

Guy:     You said she was actually Jewish?

Verna:   Yes.

Guy:     That puts her pretty definitely in Germany. Otherwise she could have been just as well in Russia. Similar things went on there.

Sylvia:  I don't think it matters where she was on earth, people have these bad experiences.

Gina:    Was it one special person or was it, was she, a token of so many people? Could it have been Anna Frank? Did you know who it was.

Verna:   No, it wasn't the person you mentioned. She was one individual that we were able to bring through.

Marsha:  One nameless individual?

Verna:   One of many. But as some others did come along with her it was almost a group rescue type of thing. The others were just around the 
         circle listening and some of them are responding to what their guides were saying to them. And we hope that they are now going to have 
         the courage to go through their own experience and gain the same acceptance and forgiveness, and therefore be released.

Sylvia:  Are they still around?

Verna:   They are not really around the circle. They are close by, but they are more in their own little groups at the moment.

Sylvia:  If you are more in contact with them than we are, please give them all our love and God speed.

Verna:   They will feel it, and respond. I thank you all for coming tonight. And I give a special thank you to our two visitors. Forgive me
         for not acknowledging you earlier. There was so much to talk about and get across. You both contributed quite significantly.

Jenny and Marsha: Thank you.

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